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The problem is, ALPA has evolved into a business, not a union. I worked at what was the largest purely heavy freight operations in existance...but we weren't big enough (spelled $$ in dues) to spend money on when we were shut down because of an engineered shutdown by the FAA. It was obvious to anyone with the dimmest of vision that the company WANTED to be shut down to be able to replace our crewmembers with contractors and avoid the scope provisions of our contract. Until we sued, ALPA showed no interest in taking action at all. They wouldn't even authorize a picket operation (which we had been informed the Teamsters would honor, basically shutting down the company entirely). After a few years in court, ALPA finally agreed to pursue arbitration, from which we got a few pennies on the dollar.
The lesson: if you aren't one of the big guys, don't plan on ALPA to do any more than they have to for you. Even if you are, check with the TWA guys about how much ALPA will spend to keep your seniority (or job) if it doesn't involve more $$ for them. I'm not anti union or even anti ALPA; but I do agree that the smaller carriers or regionals would be better served if they organized a real union to represent them. ALPA just isn't interested.
Originally Posted by Ftrooppilot
(Post 136572)
I live in Key West where there are a variety of "orientations" and have decided to come out of the closet and admit mine has changed:
"I am FOR pilot Unions ?" (big U not small u like two persons). For someone with Military/Aviation Management / Business Management Teaching background, this is a traumatic change. Most anti-union folks think of the $45.00 an hour (plus benefits) 10th grade education union worker who puts hub caps on cars in a production line. Those wages and benefits seem out of line given the education and responsibility levels. Unions got them there and are therefore "bad" right ? Wrong. If you go back to when John L Lewis organized the coal miner union, the results were safer worker conditions and a decent wage. I equally worried about the safe working conditions a I am pay. Too many regional pilots are working second and third jobs to suplement their meger regional airlines pay. Sometimes they are forced to live in the "boondocks" where the cost of living is low and spend too many hours comuting to their job. "They are burning the candle at both ends" and violating the "intent" of crew rest. ALPA needs to get of their dead a** and start fighting for better working conditions / pay for the regional pilots :mad: :mad: or somebody will organize a union that will. |
Originally Posted by cruiseclimb
(Post 136557)
It's important to improve the position of the step you're on, not bring down the one above you or blame others because we accepted the crap pay and work rules (Freightpuppy). .
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Originally Posted by cruiseclimb
(Post 136575)
Puppy, I can tell you scope is there as a good thing, so that every job out there isn't at a regional pay scale.. If we don't have them, larger carriers will continue to turnover mainline routes to regionals flying larger equipement (over 50 seats). Eventually the entire domestic market is being flown by pilots making $19-$55/hour. If you don't want to recognize that, enjoy the current conditions, and want to see more mainline jobs disappear, then keep up your crusade (idiot).. It's stupid for me to waste my time exhanging ideas with you on this subject. If you want to see what happens when scope clauses are circumvented.. just look at GoJets.. Pilots flying big equipement at turboprop rates. Take a look at this to help you understand that it's the scope clauses that help protect us from management.. http://www.gojet411.blogspot.com/ GO get a job at GoJets since you think scope is bad.
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Originally Posted by cruiseclimb
(Post 136627)
Were you even flying in this industry prior to 9/11?
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No matter what a company pays you, it will never be enough. I know people who make over 160k a year and still are pay check to pay check. As soon as people make more money they realise they can spend more. If your smart you spend your money on assets not liabilities like a new fancy car and a bigger house that they don't need. Financial education in the country is horrible. Spend your money on something that will make you money. You never make money at a job, you work for it.
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Originally Posted by Freightpuppy
(Post 136733)
Yes, as a matter of fact, I was. Were you?
Originally Posted by Freightpuppy
(Post 131047)
I DON'T THINK SO! I would say it's the major airline pilots that let it happen when RJs came into the picture.
If the mainline guys weren't "too good" to fly RJs, we wouldn't have this problem right now. Don't even go there buddy. Maybe you should pull your head out of your a$$ and face reality. IT WAS THE MAJOR AIRLINE PILOTS that started this mess. |
Originally Posted by Freightpuppy
(Post 131047)
I DON'T THINK SO! I would say it's the major airline pilots that let it happen when RJs came into the picture.
If the mainline guys weren't "too good" to fly RJs, we wouldn't have this problem right now. Don't even go there buddy. Maybe you should pull your head out of your a$$ and face reality. IT WAS THE MAJOR AIRLINE PILOTS that started this mess. Is this guy for real?? and he's calling you a tool and an idiot ??? Cruiseclimb... don't waste your time on this clown. |
Originally Posted by Schnides
(Post 136830)
Is this guy for real?? and he's calling you a tool and an idiot ??? Cruiseclimb... don't waste your time on this clown.
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Originally Posted by cruiseclimb
(Post 136796)
How come you're not with a major yet then... or are you boycotting them because their pilot group started this whole mess? I did misquote you on the military bashing and just picked that up now, so yeah that was stupid and sorry about that.. but to blame the current situation on mainline pilots.. is way off the mark.
You JUST picked up on the fact that you misquoted me? I have been pointing that out to you for a few posts now. I even posted the page and post number. I might not "get it" with regards to commuters/majors and RJs but I'd say you are a little sloooow. Also, once again, avoiding another question. Typical. Where did I say scope was bad? Or maybe it was someone else who said that? I did say something that may have been stupid. Haven't we all? Once again, I did try to get you to "enlighten" me but you never answered a question, not once. |
Enough of the name calling in this thread. Please play nice. The admins are trying to cut back on the flame stuff.
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