N2rotation

As an ex-Mesa pilot I wanted to put a post on here to educate anyone that is considering interviewing/employment with that place.

I used to read these forums a couple years ago before I decided to go Mesa. I read about people complaining and about people being frustrated with working at Mesa/Freedom/Air Midwest. I read about this on mesalouge and mesahub. However, being the optimistic person that I was, I just shrugged it off, thought that it was just a few people doing all the complaining.

I was set on getting to mainline and flying that ‘widebody’ ASAP. Apparently Mesa had the best upgrade around. So I went there.

I WAS ALL WRONG.

Here are the facts. I am posting them because I want to educate new guys and gals getting into this industry. Maybe you are a CFI, maybe at an aviation university, maybe you are thinking about a career change. Well if you are- go to work at a quality airline. Go to work at a quality airline. Go to work at a quality airline. This is a long post but I am trying to fill in the gaps of info that other posts leave out.


Mesa used to have a great upgrade because they had a massive expansion post 9/11 because a lot of the majors couldn’t afford to farm off their regional flying to quality carriers. Instead, the lowest bidder won- and that was Mesa because of the sub-par contract that the pilots and FAs work under. Long story short, this contract was essentially forced upon the pilots due to the alter-ego carrier that Ornstein was forming- Freedom. Similar to gojet/TSA. Lots of CRJ 700s and 900s were on order and being bought with Mesa Air Group money that had essentially been earned by Mesa employees. The catch- new employees (some call scabs) were flying these new airplanes, walking into the left seat of the new jets. See: whipsaw.


The majors have caught on. Mesa hasn’t been awarded any new flying in the last year- except 12 old Dash-8-100s out of JFK… which will be gone by September anyway. The majors are awarding regional flying to good companies because they want quality. The lowest bidder is no longer winning everything. Word on the street is that XJT’s new DAL flying out of LAX wasn’t the lowest bidder, but their quality is what was sought after.

So Mesa’s current contract is like this: pilots get paid for the average amount of time that it takes to complete a flight. For example… you’re flying a MEL’d, no APU, single PACK CRJ-200 that has dirt and grime throughout the flight deck between IAD and EWR. The average block time for that flight is say: 1:15. The pilots will get paid just that. You get ready to push back from the gate and the air cart needed to start the engines isn’t producing enough power. Delay #1. You push back, taxi out and get put in the holding pen for delays going into EWR. Shut em down. Delay #2. Finally, you do a crossbleed start, get them running and takeoff for Newark. You hold enroute, delay #3. You touch down in a cross-wind, work your magic and safely complete a flight with the skills that you’ve spend tens of thousands of dollars on to acquire. You navigate the taxiways to the gates… your certificate on the line with each possible turn and finally upon reaching the ramp you find that the gates are full. Delay # 4. Nobody at dispatch in PHX had the forethought to warn you about this or feels like helping out. Again, you apologize to the passengers. Finally you make it to the gate, 1:25 minutes late.


So lets recap. You just spent 2:40 as a crew member on a jet for a part 121 carrier in America. You were held responsible for the other 52 (or 68) people on board (with the captain.) If you were a first year FO you just made about $61 for that circus.

Next, dispatch/payroll/crew tracking will try to screw you out of the minimum pay that you receive by making the paychecks difficult to decipher.
You’ll only get 8 days off per month on reserve. Republic guys/gals get a minimum of 11 days off per month to see their families/significant others. You work on 13 bid periods per year. The math equals this: you work 28 days more than other pilots working under the same code shares. Again- you spend another month per year working. For less. Awesome.
Let’s see. What else. Everything there is disorganized. When on ready reserve (sitting on reserve at the airport, watching people walk by and eating expensive food) typically they notify you of a flight assignment for a flight that was supposed to leave 15 minutes ago. You go to the gate and all the passengers are boarded. You get on and everyone is staring you down. The other crew members are frustrated. Negative work environment.
Many of the reserve work days consist of two to three hours pay for up to sixteen hours of duty. What other industries can you think of that don’t pay their people for being at work?

This kind of disrespect robs your dignity and fuels your frustration. It wasn’t fun working with a bunch of disgruntled, annoyed crew members.

Contract negotiations are coming up this September and Mesa ALPA needs support. They need to get a contract that is no longer sub-par because they deserve it. However, even with a better contract I don’t think it will be a good place to work. Better, but still not preferable.

I COULD CONTINUE THE LIST BUT I DON'T WANT TO SWAMP ALPC'S SERVER. If you want more info... read up at www.mesahub.com

So what do you do? Boycot working at Mesa. Supply and demand runs our profession. If we continue to supply that management team with cheap labor the race to the bottom will continue. PLUS- everyone else is hiring. If you are CFIing, just wait a little while longer for XJT, Republic, Comair, Skywest. It will be worth it. They all have better upgrades than Mesa anyways! If you are considering the MAPD (Mesa Airlines Pilot Development) programs, look elsewhere. You’ll be happy you did someday.

I no longer work there and I am glad of it. My schedule is better now, my stress is reduced, and I am no longer lining Ornstein’s pockets. Sure, I gave up some seniority but seniority at Mesa isn’t worth much. If you are currently at Mesa, leaving could be one of the best things that you could do for your quality of life, family, well being and it will be good for your profession. If you are thinking about Mesa, not going there could be one of the best things that you could do for your quality of life, family, well being and it will be good for your profession.


I may not know you, but friends don’t let friends fly for Mesa. PM me if you wanna know more.

If you want to add to this thread, make sure it's productive. I'm open to corrections, but as a pilot there, this is exactly how it was. We're trying to educate the new folks. Thanks!

APM145

I hope you are enjoying your new employment a lot more. I hope you get involved with your new pilot group to educate your peers about how important it is to stay united and not allow this sort of treatment. Unfortunetly when the option early on is to stay in a cessna or seminole a few months longer anything seems better, until you learn. There needs to be more people out there to mentor new pilots about the good and the bad. I would not want to walk into this industry blindly, so I try to help those new to flying educate themselves. No one person can do this, pilots have to take an active role in teaching the newer generations about the history of this career and that will really benefit all of us.

Good Luck

rickair7777

I'll vouch for N2's summary of mesa.

bintynogin

I could only imagine such $hitty treatment. Some people I know ***** about the ugrade time at Horizon but on your worst days it's still better than most. I'm glad you moved out of there. Like you said, choose a good company and not the ugrade.

poor pilot

Thanks for giving xjt the props we deserve. I am glad you posted, when i was cfiing i check out post like yours about mesa and companies like it and waited to get what i wanted.

Koolaidman

Great post. I am guilty of what I am about to comment on, but if you can avoid going to a gojet or Mesa, wait the extra few months and find something that will benefit us all.

I went to TSA low-time because I was an intern and had connections. During my first month on the line, I can't tell how many captains told me get some flight time and then get out as fast as I can. At first, I didn't believe them. However, one and a half years later, I see exactly what they meant.

As long as there are people who will continue to fly for places like Mesa, gojet, etc., those places will continue to exist and hold us all down. I am sure it is a difficult decision to make, instruct or Mesa, but the majority of people on here will tell you to instruct for the extra three months or whatever it takes and get on with a good quality company.

Mouse

I have a friend who flys for Mesa and he is miserable. He and I got our licenses fairly close to the same time, and he hates to fly now, because of MESA.

I am heeding the advice of my friend and N2, I am waiting fot something better, maybe if we work togerther Mesa and Great Mistakes,,,, I mean Lakes will both go down.

EFIS COMP MON

As a Mesa pilot, and one who is aggresively pursuing other options in order to escape this prison ASAP, I totally agree (although I would like to add that the Freedom debacle was not only pilots coming in off the street, but MANY of our "own" that crossed to the dark side).

I'm looking at starting over at another regional with 2-1/2 years of seniority here, 2000+ hours in the jet, and upgrade "right around the corner" because I'm sickened when I see that Mesa badge on my uniform. I'm repulsed by what it stands for...namely, the inhumane treatment of people. Also, at the very least, not getting paid for doing my job. I don't see my picture on my ID, but one of JO laughing and saying "I can't believe you all let me get away with treating you like this!".

So, let's add it up...2-1/2 years as an FO at Mesa, and let's hypothetically say another 2-3 years to upgrade when I start over at another regional. That's at minimum a total of 4-1/2 years of being an FO (at least). And to say that I'm not the only senior FO thinking about leaving is an understatement.

I won't be bitter about making the wrong decision to come to Mesa when I leave, but rather relieved (big time!). I'll realize that I put myself back 2-1/2 years, missed out on PIC time, more money, better QOL, etc. Yet I'll be able to look in the mirror and respect myself for doing what's right, and not selling my soul for upgrade. That's worth more than any PIC time I could have.

And on that note, I'm sure CFIse will pipe in to tell me I'm overreacting...

JoeyMeatballs

Hey brotha I was the same way I left Colgan after 9 months and had to "start over" agian, but it made me appreciate XJT that much more, I would do it all over agian if I could, I see some of these ZERO TO HERO guys that went from PPL to 121 in 2 months and they dont appreciate it nearly as much as the guys that get abused at MESA/Colgan etc.............

Airborne

How in any way is DISPATCH to blame for screwing you out of a paycheck?

I can’t speak for Mesa dispatcher’s professionalism, but a Dispatcher has Joint Responsibility for the Safety of every 121 flight. Why would a dispatcher be interested in screwing you out of money? I couldn't count all the times that I saved the CPT's butt from doing something stupid and likewise he/she saved mine from planning something incorrectly.

Dispatchers are your friends- Team work- it is a joint responsibility regulation.

Great post - I couldn't agree more about MESA except I have never seen a Dispatcher try to screw a pilot. - I have seen crew schedulers do some nasty things but most of the time it because there is some over paid director or manager forcing them to do it.