1. Probably CFI.

2. I agree. That's why I don't work for SWA. And if you have a 737 type on your cert with no operational experience, some other majors REALLY don't like that...they assume you tried to PFT into SWA, and got rejected....try to explain that to CAL or AS.

3. They do hire PFTers, if they have something else going for them. But many major airline pilots resent it, and if you meet one of those guys on your CA board, you might as well have stayed home.

4. Beer and classic VW's, but those are other forums.

5. This is true. I want to discourage new pilots from doing PFT in most cases, but I don't run around despising most of those who did. Many didn't know any different. But I do get spun up when they start defending it with uninformed rants. Like I said before, where are all the ex-PFT major airline pilots? Speak Up!

A point of view from an "old" retired 767/757 driver. I believe that everyone pays in one way or another. I paid by spending 6 years in the Navy and one of my sons paid by flying checks all night long for 2 years @ $.05/mile JUST to build flying time. Flying is a terrible affliction with no known cure. If someone knows how to post an email onto this forum, PM me and I'll forward it to you. You can then paste it here, or whatever you do, to tell others why we fly.

mmmmmmmmm beer.

I know your story RV boy. I was your instructor there, you saying the quality of training I provided you was poor? Ill whoop your scrawny Mississippi a$$!

Rick, thank you for clerifying that you are opposed to company specific PFT. I too think that is extreem. The training I got at Regional was to make myself marketable, and was not aimed at one airline in particular. Pilots complete the courses at regional in many ways. Some instruct before going to the type, some after (me), and some not at all (MSRVpilot). The point here is that while the pilot may only have a limited number of hours when they get the type rating ( I only had 380), they still instruct for some time before they are eligible for a job. True, they wont instruct very much, but from my 300 hours of dual given(yes I had 680 when hired), I realized the hardest part about it was the first fifty, smooth sailing after that. Also, the type program at regional is only attended by 10% or so of the students, the other slots are filled with good ol' 135 pilots, or long itme CFIs looking to boost their resume. A vast majority of Regional "grads" did not do the type rating. There is a lot of bashing of my school going on, and most of it is not true. I would never venture to say that Regional has got it down pat, but they are pretty good at what they do. Four years of opperations and over 100thousand hours of flight with not a single accident of any kind (couple solos ran of the runway). I guess I'm trying to say, when you meet an FO from my school, don't label them right away as a douch. There was one unfortunate incident with one of our grads that effectively cut the relations the school had with AirWisky. Since then the focus of training has shifted. At first anyone with the money could get recommended by the school to do the type. Now, there is a thourough discusion about each pilot's personality and ethical background before they are allowed to go to the type rating. The result is a higher quality pilot, both socially, profesionally, and ethically. The question of experience comes up alot. To make it quick and save the keystrokes; It sure is a good thing we are FOs, and not captains. Thus far, every captain I have flown with has taught me something extrememly valuable, and I hope that continues till I am ready to move to the left seat. There is no wool over my eyes, I know its going to take some time, and I know I am not ready yet, what I do know is that I need the help from every captain I fly with to get me ready. I look forward to the delays, the ice, the rain and thunderstorms. Bring it on, I want the experience. Oh, and the pay down here sucks, If they paid me anyting less I would have to quit for lack of sustinance, I can hardly afford food on my overnights. I can't wait for the loan payments to start:eek: !

I dont think that the people on this thread that are PFTrs fit the bill as you described it. Sure I paid for training, and a type rating, but that was so I could put it on my resume. So I could say "Hey Mr. hiring manager, I already passed this kind of training once, I am not a risk to your company. I wont wash out".

Yeah my last post was a little emotional. I bet if we were all standing in a bar talking about this it would have been over long ago. Punkpilot would be hammered, thats for sure.

Keeping my kool
Nick

One last thing. I bet Pilotwifey is hot.

I will say
 

that yes MR2die4 is a great CFI but since he taught me out of his own will thats different! Yeah im a successs story of a guy who didnt do the type and built up enough hours to get hired with no type rating. Well MR2die4 , the quality of training does suck excluding u and PUNKPILOT, ya'll are probly the only two instructors who gave a ****!

Now its my turn to preech a little bit, WHy all the controversy on the ****ing type why does everybody have something to ****ing say about it. I think some may be jealous that they had to work there ass off 4 years and the type students went and proved there self in a month in stead of four years. Look I dont agree with RAA , but to all the people who constantly pick on the guys who are type rated **** OFF b/c we are all on the same team , we all share the skys and there is enough room for all of us. I don't think its right to condemn a fellow pilot on his or her skills and abilities just because the training route they chose. What if all the type rated pilot picked on the old timers and Called THEM DOUCHES ! huh b/c they had to sweat there ****ing ass of in a 172 for 1500hrs to get were they are. I feel like any route you take to better ur self and get to an airline is a good route. Why cant everyone overlook how this or that pilot got there and talk about the good things at hand like, ( glad to see you here , whats your schedule like ) All this type rating your a douche non sense sound like a bunch of 13 years olds arguing about who gets to get the back seat on the bus. Come on guys yall grow up a little bit. The type is just an open door opportunity and it looks good on a resume showing that you already have been there done that. But i do agree that someone shouldn't be in the CRJ @ 320tt and 30 me I had to work harder than that! but thats my ****ing story and im stickin to it.

Right on number 4 & 5 tellem YOU PUNK PILOT U !!!!

Back on topic...

I was hired into a prop-trash commuter w/ low-time because no one else would hire me. I had good "experience" lots of turbine multi (earned) but low TT. That being said...

1) Going from a 172 or seminole driving around in FL where there is little WX to a ERJ or E-Jet at RAH or XJet is a handful. Not impossible given the right attitude, but tough.
2) If you don't want students trying to kill you, go drag banners or jumpers...
3) Putzing around does not give you experience in the IFR System (under the hood is not the system)
4) Move at a speed you feel comfortable. If you think a jet is too fast, go fly a 1900 or SF340 somewhere for a year or two. Drive Caravans around, or do the Flight Express deal....If you want to use the commuter as a stepping stone, you may want to ensure you have a successful career at this level. The days of 1000 jet and impressing someone are over. We all have 6-10000 jet and 4000+ JET PIC.
5) I've flown on line and done IOE on people from RAA. Personally, I'm not impressed. Go to Pan Am or FSI.....

That being said, I have had some steller F/O's that only had recip time...Some were only CFI's, but had the right attitude. If you choose to go that route, be a sponge for about 3 years. Don't upgrade until you have played with a 200 mile squall line chasing you across the plains. Don't upgrade until you have flown in icing and had important parts decide not to work. I've seen F/O's from RAA at my company, show up, never fly outside FL and upgrade to sit RSV in FL then get sent to LGA to sit RSV in the winter. That is a rude awakening....

Good luck on any path you pursue...Just remember, if you don't love to fly, you'll be upset. This isn't the fluff job your dad used to have. Give yourself a very HONEST evaluation. Choose the path that is best for you, not just the "quickest" route. You never know when everything will stop...

Agreed. I hope I wasnt one of the RAA guys you were less than impressed with. I try my damndest. But Iv'e got a lot to learn. Its good to see this thread turning back to the positive. I could use the advise from anyone who has been in the biz for a while. Ill take it all in and sort it out later. Thanks fto everyone in here that is keeping it up!

..also, don't forget the old adage: If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is....

Alot of people forget that you can fly 1,000 hours or 1 hour a thousand times. There is no rocket science to the job, no secret mystery. Now, however, it is VERY easy to get in over your head. Even though I came up quickly, I had time in twin recips, and turboprops, flying around the system, just a small portion of my TT was doing steep turns, slow flight (add right rudder!!) and Vmc Demos. I can tell you that I learned more from one flight filed IFR than a week of instruction.

Looking back, I am very glad I did not get hired into a jet. I went to a 4-year college that had a old school jet sim. We flew the sim with 250 HR TT. I can tell you, it handed me my ass everyweek. The T-prop was a great step up for me. I remember my first flight in a t-prop. It was about a 45 minute trip, and when we landed, I was just leveling off in cruise. That was at 220 KTAS, not quite double of the PA34. Now, throw me into a jet that cruises at 440 KTAS and going out to the NE at a winter ground speed of over 500 KTS. That was roughly double of the T-Prop speed. Here sir, is your ass handed to you on a silver platter....

To me, it's not a question of TT. It is a question of real experience. The rest of your flying career has been a stepping up process. Why take a huge leap? I'm not saying go pound 135 in a 208 for years, but get enough time to be comfortable at the next speed level for a bit, and work on your airmanship.

Also, the glass today tricks people. I could get my cat to pass a type ride. It is nothing more than a series of organizational events. When one goes online and the GPS/FMS quits, where are you? I used to have F/O's scoff at me when I had a Hi or Lo chart out flying in parts of the country I didn't know. One even asked why I'd look at that when I had an FMS. My reply was another question: "Where could you go from here if it filled up with smoke right now and I'm knocked out?"

Common pitfalls of people who had great training, and a bit of confidence, but not enough experience to not know what they don't know....

Good luck on your career. Make it an enjoyable experience....