i don't know about other posters but i'm trying to warn people off a career that will only end in disappointment. i truly wish i'd taken another path when i had the opportunity. on the other hand, if you like slaving for a company who treats you like dirt 99% of the time, if you like constant scrutiny, if you like being disciplined by people who have the ability to take your career from you in an instant, if you like low-grade morons who can goad you into a fight and end your career permanently, if you like taking pay cuts so management can put huge bonuses in their pockets, if you like working for a retirement you have contracted for in a legally-binding manner only to be told a few years from retirement that, sorry, i needed a few extra million so i declared BK and stole your retirement, if you enjoy watching your earning power erode as years pass, if you think the types of cancers pilots get as they age to be an exciting diversion, then, by all means, sign up and enjoy.

a lot of you don't like me and my manner. i couldn't possibly care less. it may come as a total shock to you but my manner, which you so detest, hides a big soft and helpful heart and my advice issues therefrom. this isn't about PFT and driving down the industry; this is about HEARTBREAK and ending your career after making $150k a year on social security and having to sell everything you once owned just to survive. many of us will be in that position. i will likely not be but that's not the point. the point is the airline business is not run by honorable and nice people. it is run by those who have no scruples and have no trouble sleeping after destroying your life. my heartfelt advice is to do something, anything else. work for yourself, get a govt job, anything. even go to law school but flying? it will kill you.

Lights at the end of the tunnel are getting dimmer.
 

I really do appreciate your concern for both my own dignity and others' as well. I am a very impatient person... I hate waiting; why do you think I love flying? :cool: But hey, we are all in this together (well most of us) and I agree with all of you. I didn't end up doing RAA's program because they just didn't sell me very well. I haven't been keeping up on the posts.
Timeline of past events:
I called RAA about the program / I researched the forums / I called CHQ themselves to find out the "validity" of the program / They called me back telling me that they had never HEARD of RAA and that I should call them out on it / I did so and they said "Who did you talk to?" / I said "The head lady for interviews!"

So here I am: Chugging away at hours that I am not sure I will ever use. Chugging away at a degree in Prof. Aero. and don't know why. I am not sure I will ever make the Regionals, let alone the Majors... and I mean any major. I am hoping to find the route which will lead to MY perfect job.

So what do you suggest? Do I go with a 121 or 135 company? AND IF SO, PLEASE TELL ME WHO WILL HIRE SOMEONE WITH 850/200????!??!?! I am at KFPR and no one, including close friends will hire me because of insurance reasons. At least that's what they say! I know it is not because of my attitude or anything like that; I am very well liked at KFPR, unlike on some of these forums. See I would like to work here and live here at home. I know that is not possible, but what about people like CHQ? That's why I liked them so much: their domiciles and max size equipment. Most regionals can't boast "heavy" aircraft like the 170/190. I KNOW it really is a typical airliner stamped "REGIONAL AIRLINER" but hey, it's still heavy and it still flies faster than a C152, 172, 310, 421, or any small aircraft that I am aware. Right now I have 500/12mo's and 400/6mo's so I guess I'm not doing so badly, but what do I do when no one will hire me at 1000/300???? It is the ultimate deciding factor, RIGHT? I need a job that pays more than CFI. Simple as that. I really thought like MOST of us here that there is still SOME airlines with some glory left in them. Instead they are mostly loaded with junk that they want you to pay for!

So I will ask one more time: What company will hire someone with times like myself and how do I contact them? I need a job that will support both myself and my fiance. As it looks now we will be getting married very soon here. I agree with the timing and I appreciate all of your inputs, etc on that part. She is perfectly capable of pulling some of the wagon up the hill. It's cool when every once in a while you find "a real trooper." I commend the gals on this post for allowing their husbands to PURSUE their DREAMS and "MAKE DREAMS REALITY."

I will keep in touch guys/gals. Until then, what do we do to make pay go up? I think ALL PROFESSIONAL PILOTS should protest until the GVT makes flight schools TELL THE TRUTH about the dull finish on the gold plating from 10-15 years ago! This will reduce the surplus of enthused pilots coming in thinking it is a glorious job with lots of pay. Then when the airlines actually NEED pilots (that should take some time!!!!!) we will have the bigger piece on the stick. What do you think??
Who's with me? Anyone? Anyone???

The-Unconventionally-Professional-Pilot

Also another question: How do flight schools get away with false advertising so greatly and so boldly? I mean "GUARUNTEED JOB IN JUST ONE YEAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" posted all over a website... GET REAL. If it sounds too good to be true... You know the rest. It stings, but it makes you stronger.

"Also another question: How do flight schools get away with false advertising so greatly and so boldly?"

Dude...I've been fighting this battle at another popular aviation careers website for years. Some of the guys that used to argue with me recently went to Comair for pete's sake. That should teach them that "being owned by Delta" really doesn't mean everything.

Big academy marketing/advertising is one of my biggest pet peeves. Most guys just blow it off and could care less. There really is nothing we can do about it other than post our opinions at sites where young newbies frequent. At least then they go into it with an education. I keep saying the day DCA, CAPT, or PanAm puts a link to my favorite aviation career website, or this one, is the day I shut up.

"but what do I do when no one will hire me at 1000/300????"

Get up to 1200 hours and you'll have no problem getting a 135 freight job. It's not pretty but it'll make you a better pilot and pays better than the regionals first year. I have a friend who's Capt on a BE99 after three months at Amflight who got hired at 1200/100.

Hm. Freight you say... Better pay? More experience?
 

I'll do it! LoL There is this 135 charter that is not looking for pilots but just fired one for being an idiot... I am hoping to get on with them. They fly checks all over FL and also passengers to the MY??'s, etc. I hope I can get on with either them or this place down in Stuart I suppose.. I guess I need to really open my vision to other avenues than just "the big guys" and "the regionals" and seriously consider freight. I suppose this is how everybody does it? CFI for awhile and then haul freight then get a bigger job (what would be the middle for that?) and then ultimately wind up corporate or major..?
See, I don't know this course very well. My dad is my only person I have to look at in terms of "how he did it". The problem is that he got his time from the Navy for EIGHT years. He finally got on with AA with 1500TT....(!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) and mostly CL thrust ME time. He stayed with them for 32 years, flew the 747 while AA had them. Never furloughed... etc. Just sailed through. Made millions, literally then retired. He is a shining star of "The Golden Age of Pilot Jobs". There was certainly a lot of gold... Now it seems all that is left is grey and matterless. No gold here. We missed the rush!

I have a question for all those who say that airline pilot wannabees are ruining the industry by accepting jobs for low pay. What are those guys supposed to do, exactly? They can make no demands on pay walking in the door. The union doesn't even know them (because they get no money from them). Are they supposed to put their careers on hold to improve the pay and QOL of incumbent pilots? Pilots who do have a voice in collective bargaining and on some level AGREED to the contracts that pay peanuts. Are all the prospective newhires supposed to back off so that management has no cheap labor to come in and keep them in business. Im not trying to inflame anyone, I am asking all these questions seriously, and I do appreciate where the incumbent pilots are coming from. I agree that this is a dying profession with adequate compensation in a deep downward spiral. But I too may be looking to get on with a regioanl airline to build my turbine time and then I would like a job with Netjets or some other fractional rather than the majors. But for ppl like me, we are stuck in a big catch 22...ie...we need hours to get a job, but also need a job to get hours. Anyway, honest answers and input would be appreciated.

I definitly agree. I am at the point of applying and its like what I am supposed to do? I need to get the turbine time whether its an RJ or Beech but the pay is horrible. Thats a least for first year. Some of the RJ operators are little better second year and as a Capt on the RJ you earn a modest income. I have said the exact same things, what am I supposed to do? I am hoping to get into the Legacys someday unless I find a nice cushy part 91 job. So until things change I am going to working $18 an hour first year.

You're correct for the most part, it IS our fault. However what has changed in the last 5 years or so is the increased use of PFT pilots...

In addition to the operational experience aspect of accumulating 1000+ hours as a CFI, you also see certain unpleasant aspects of aviation employment, ESPECIALLY the QOL abuses that are universally perpetrated by aviation employers in a non-contract environment. By the time you're done with that you've had enough of working for peanuts and getting abused.

The PFT folks come in on an airline seniority list with no clue; they go through their learning process while earning seniority ahead of the CFI's and while driving down the compensation of the industry as a whole. additionally they are willing to work at any airline that will hire them, while CFI's tend to be morte selective (I know some who refuse to take a job at Mesa, even after they were rejected by SKW).

A pilot's group negotiating horsepower can be severly impacted by PFT, if there is enough junior PFT on property, it makes it very difficult to strike. The reason for this is that typically a junior regional pilot would be willing to quit or strike and go work somewhere else if conditions are bad enough...but the PFT crowd CAN'T get a job elsewhere, so they are afraid to strike and risk killing the company or getting furloughed...the last thing a PFT airline pilot wants to do is wind up on the streets and need to get a CFI to build PIC time....

Management is very adept at feeding the fears of the inexperienced with threats of doom, gloom, furloughs, slow upgrade, etc. :(

I'm no PFT nor CFI, but how many folks have the PFT'ers brought with them.
100 PFT's=100 pilots/ 100 CFI's=500? 600? 1000? new pilots..To me this seem's where the overload in pilots come from.
This industry needs a fix, attacking one group for "bringing down the profession woes" gets us nowhere.. I don't have any answers anyone else??


Rofzu.:cool:

I'm not attacking. I'm trying to educate the new folks that PFT will likely be held against them at some point during their career.

A typical CFI will train lots of students, but most are recreational. Typically, I'd guess that each CFI during a 1-2 year career will train one CFI/future airline guy...his replacement.

I disagree
 

You wanted some input from someone that has experience with RAA. I currently go to RAA in Deland, FL. I did some training in a local FBO back home and completed my private there. I just completed my instrument and am doing my commercial multi at the moment. The value of Regional Airline Academy far exceeds any FBO training. Training is most important to me because it improves safety. I have learned twice as much as I learned from the FBO because there is more indepth instruction, more information from multiple instructors, chief pilots and chief instructors, years of airline experience and they train you to fly how the airlines expect. I am building time much faster than I ever could with an FBO. No they do not guarantee you a job. However, this month alone, at least 5 instructors there were hired with regional airlines with around 500 hours. The reason for this is that the regional carrier visit us often, do interviews, tell us what they expect and hire pilots with less time because of a type rating. Not all school are the same and do not offer the same for the money. Embry Riddle is a good school but is expensive. ATP just gets you the minimums, there is no way to get good experience by getting all your ratings in 90 days. RAA gives you thorough training, and prepares you for the airlines. The airline Transition course prepares you to a certain extent on what to expect when you go for your type rating and training. You wont find that at an FBO. RAA isnt that expensive, its about 58000 for all your ratings through CFII and Airline transition course, then 13500 for a CRJ-700 type. They will get you to an airline with less hours, than trying to build 1000 TT and 100 ME by instructing. Whats good about RAA is that you can build time and be paid to instruct here, but you should get more students and a more consistant flying schedule. One of the biggest things is the networking you are able to do by meeting and getting advise from other students and instructors and whos getting hired and what it takes. The more friends you keep in touch with the greater the chance of getting a reference to be hired. I DO recommend you look into it and dont worry about what other pilots seem to think of you. If they have a problem with you getting hired at a young age and faster than it took them, too bad I cant wait and pay more money than I am. Yes it takes time to gain experience so I wouldn't be in any hurry to get in the left seat in less than 3 years. If you do, good for you. Good luck with your decision, Im just giving you a real experience from someone who has researched flight schools and is attending one.

I don't want to blast any guys that have already made it, congrats to them, and I would like as much helpful and positive advise from current airline pilots as I can get. However, don't knock training centers until you have actually attended that particular one. We just have a strong motive to get our careers started as soon as possible, and gain experience which is the most beneficial.

my 2 cents
 

I understand all of you hate the way that we are suposedly ruining the industry. Everyone is different and I hate waiting as well. I was lucky enough to have awesome parents who paid for my degree. I know which direction the airlines are headed, I have had all kinds of courses on airline and aircargo mgmt. and commuter airlines. My point is that I want to get the licenses as fast as possible, at the same cost as what I was spending at the FBO's flying once or twice a week. Here I can fly everyday and on a fixed price. When I get done with my ratings and type rating, i will not have enough hours to get hired and I will buy my time by instructing and gaining experience and helping younger guys. I will start my career with a regional and work under crappy circumstances and live with it. Im not worried about the money I've spent because I have nothing but a 40000 dollar loan to pay off. At 500 a month I can live with that. I will build my hours and try to upgrade as fast a possible, gaining experience. Then I will try to get with UPS through my friends who are experienced pilots and instructors there. If that doesn't work then I will look for corporate. Until then I will gain my experience and do what I truly like to do which is fly. Im tired of all the negativity and bitterness. If you dont like the industry, do us all a favor and get out. But for those of us that do have a goal, want to earn a better wage than instructing and love to fly, let us buy our time and give us actually helpful advice, not try and turn us away. I do not worry about how the industry is at this moment. Change occurs all the time and there eventually will be a change to the good. For every low there will be a high. I will find my way to a happy career in aviation by doing what I need to do. Im not happy with pay at the moment, but it will get better with the time and route I choose. Quit being all bitter and DO something about it. Put yourself above the competition, get a better attitude and be a leader, that might lead to a better situation for you instead of just wining about it.

I'm not bitter, I like your attitude some what, but get a little time and experience under your belt before you start giving advise to guys, that you really know nothing about whats really going on.

Sounds like you'll be set up nice with the UPS network, so you know what you need to do. Not everyone has that, so just slow down on the talking and get your time and talk later. You can brag to me when your hired at UPS

Im not bragging to anyone or trying to give advise. I realize I dont have any experience in airlines and I want to be at the level you are for a period of time to gain that needed experience. UPS is not a definate, it is a goal and by knowing some people might help my chances. All Im saying is dont try to be so pessimistic about everything, I realize the industry sucks at the moment. But dont turn us guys that want good advise away from flying. A good example would be that I am interested in knowing what a typical week is like as a line pilot for a regional like express jet or chatauqua? What is the pay like, not just flying pay per hour? What is upgrade time and what regionals to stay away from? Im not trying to offend anyone, just help motivate to get something done about it, thats what unions are for. So if you dont mind, could you answer some of those questions?

Typical weeK: 4 day trip followed by three days off. Sometimes three day trip with four days off. Sometimes you can manage your schedule to get your days off back-to-back = 7 or 8 days off.

As to what airline to avoid it depends on what you want to get out of a regional...

Great company to work for: Since it's great, no one wants to leave, and guys are willing to stay for a career....loooong upgrade times, don't plan on getting your PIC and going to a major this decade.

Crappy company: Everyone hates it and can't wait to bail...faster upgrade time, so you might get to a major in a just a few years...but if you don't, you're stuck in a bad place.

SkHyig,
If Regionals are entry levcel jobs then where does a guy like me who is 37 years old with 450 hours fit in?bvously I will be too old to work at a Major for any descent amount of time. I had planned on making the Regionals my career.

To Theprofessionalpilot (the person who started this thread):
 

To Theprofessionalpilot (the person who started this thread):

I guess you already figured out by now that it's not such a good idea to start a thread on this forum as a PFT with low times. Because as you can tell, the world starts falling apart and people that claim they're the real pilots, because they earned their way to a job by flying lot's of hours, begin slicing you in half. It seems to me that people forget lot's of times that airlines are not looking for just pilots, but employees as well. Everybody can fly an airplane if you train them. But not everybody is a reliable employee. And it turns out that training centers like RAA provide good reliable employees, hence why the airlines like to pick up these graduates. Also, we tend to forget that it's the airlines that hire. They set the standard. It would be ridiculous not to take advantage of programs that get you a job fast. In my time, they didn't have these training centers. I also worked my way to a job by flying scrap metal for years. I definitely would have opted for an institution like RAA or any other school for that matter if I would have had a choice in my "young" days.

As far as people stating that you, as a PFT, will be pushed aside by one of your own... well that's bogus to me. We're in a competitive market. You don't have to be a pilot! If you don't like it, shut the heck up and move on to another industry. All this whining at low time pilots is not going to change the world! Be creative, stay positive and if you love flying, stay competitive. Don't start throwing rocks at newbie’s because you're frustrated. If you want to earn big bucks, go get your MBA and start working a desk job. Being a pilot is not about earning big money. Those days are long over. And whining at new pilots is not going to change anything. It's just going to make the pilot industry look really pathetic.

Anyhow, I'm drifting off the subject here and unfortunately that seems to be the case in these forums. The first few replies are to the point (hopefully anyway) and then the slicing the low time pilot commences. How sad.

So to get to your answer (if you're still with me anyway):

My cousin got through the RAA program and she says that they don't have an agreement with Chautauqua. RAA pilots that get hired by Chautauqua are high time pilots that have been a CFI for many years. Express Jet (Air Wisconsin, PSA, Pinnacle, American Eagle) however picks up RAA graduates at 500-100. Being 21 shouldn't be a problem.

As far as picking an airline based on location only is a bit eerie to me. I wouldn't choose an employer based on just that. As far as upgrade to captain in 2 years... good luck! It's possible, not where I work at, but there are some airlines (Mesa, Pinnacle...) where you can upgrade fairly fast.

Get married before you go the airlines!

Stay positive and you'll get where you want. Don't ever turn into a whiner, that's the real loser right there!

Wish you all the best!

I couldnt agree more, thanks for stating it more clearly.

N6724G,

You should look in too the fractionals. Netjets and Flexjet would be a far better way to go and make a career, rather than the regional. Look at there pay scales. My budyy is at Flexjet. It is about a 2 to 3 yr. upgrade. With override pay and ect. you will make 6 figs in 6 yrs. Alot better than a regional. Regionals are great to get experience, but move on. Again, my advise to you, go to the fractionals. You can thank me later.

I totally agree Eagleeye... Good to know that there are still experienced pilots out there with a positive mindset and helpful advice to new comers.

Thx.

So, at RAA you spend around 72k to get hired at 500 hours? There are schools out there where you could spend half that, instruct another 500 hours (six months), and be at the same place...qualified as an entry level F/O.

Spending time as a CFI makes you a better pilot, overall. I'm glad RAA guys at least get their CFI's and work as CFI's for a time. That takes them off my Gulfstream/FSA direct track sh*t list. ATP CFI's can get on with low time, too, if they do the RJ transition course. They can also instruct another 500 hours and skip it. Whatever floats your boat, I guess.

RAA or bust
 

Yea there are a lot of scum school out there. But, lets remember to do our research before bad mouthing other peoples homes. RAA is my home and I really enjoy my time here. We recieve top notch training. Our students pass checkrides with the Orlando FSDO on a daily basis, and lets not forget the Orlando FSDO is the strictest and hardest FSDO to become certified in the entire United States. We do boast a 98% hiring rate and well duh...just come to RAA and see. We had 7 people hired within 2 weeks. Now that may not be that many but you must consider the fact that we only have about 150 active students and instructors. So, I'd love to stay and tell you all the great things about RAA but that would be a waist of time because most people make their minds up well before opening their eyes!

Ben CFI MEI

"I'd love to stay and tell you all the great things about RAA but that would be a waist of time"

No...it's a waste of time, not waist...

Keep drinkin' that Koolaid, dude, must be some good stuff....

What a *Pilot* is Worth - go corporate and get paid go RJ and get bent .... a table!
 

EagleEyeAngel (a lot of this is not to you personally, I just ended up ranting. I can't find a good place to seperate from you and the others),
I appreciate your enthusiasm. I really do! It's good to be able to take a step back and here some refreshing comments on these posts. They have the tendancy to suck me into the banwagon - not pointing my finger!
I have obtained INCREDIBLE experience being a CFII/MEI for my flight school. Unlike most CFI's out there, though, I am making a decent living at it. It's sad to see so many people thinking that just because they are CFI's means they must be walked on and underpaid. I suppose that's why I have waited to go to the airlines (and because I have local job offers that are offering about 260% or so more than regional pay). I simply cannot afford to work so hard and get paid peanuts as you guys put it. I wish I could!!!! I want to fly the "big stuff" - to me it's big anyways! I am sure some of you guys have seen my ad's on ebay, etc about ME programs and you wonder "Why is this guy charging people 350/day?!? Is he nuts?!?" The answer to your question: No, in actuality you must be nuts!
I have spent a lot of money on my certificates, etc, so I will be paid, just like that electrical contractor next door to me. My risk of death, injury from students, etc has GOT to be at least 500% higher than that electrician's worst fears!
I have been busier than I could have ever dreampt of (which is what I need to get out of here ASAP), but it has also created an abundance of profit as well. I cannot WAIT to fly corporate, or regional, whichever happens first. But I am not going to beat down their doors to get paid less than what I make per day and fly 50X larger aircraft for longer hours.
I'm not harping! Just want to give you guys a dream, and IT CAN BE ACHIEVED. I have my entire loan paid for in less than a year for my flight training... an Aztec that isn't so hot, but it's 1/5 mine, paid for. I know this might not sound like much to you guys, but I have found my niche which I kicked and screamed going into (because I knew I could have done a direct track program). And now I would not have given it up for, "that's right, ALLLLLL the tea!"
Can anyone please tell me to shut up if being a CFI is not a great gig if you can find the right place to do it? I have found that where employees are paid great waiges they provide great services to their employers which leads to greater success. I have also watched it become true with my very own training packages (i'm NOT selling something here, except an idea that we are all worth a little more than 18/hour).
I also want to note that I am not trying to complain anymore, so I appreciate all of your advise and patients (I think I spelled the kind that go to doctors' offices, it's late). I'm living the dream right now - and I haven't even flown 4.0 hours of turbine yet. How is it so? I value my time, and so should you. I'm am exception to a lot of rules... but WHY IS THAT? The question "What am I supposed to do? WAIT?" MUST have an answer, and if your answer is "Get hired, walked on, poor paychecks, long hours, etc, then go to a larger airline" then that is your porogative (SP?). I respect you GREATLY, so don't think I am downing you. I COULD not survive in that environment. But if you value your experience/time then charge for it. If you do not have the TT/ME then charge a little more than average. Once you notice that only people with a REAL agenda want to fly with you because they know a higher paid CFI will give higher VALUE flight training, then you can raise your paycheck $5/hour.... allow 6 months to expire... repeat. You've probably just become a flight instructor who makes $60, that's right, $60/hr and works 6 hours per day. I have given up keeping my resume up to date because of flying so much and getting nothing but multi-time. Sure 99% of it is vfr training but so what? It's still flight time (yeah, i KNOW instrument time is important, doing what I do and how I have done it makes that difficult!).
I am going to give you guys a little secret on how I got so many hours and made so much per hour... think of where you live, what is next to where you live or near, then figure out what people could do in your area and FOCUS. Get fliers out and advertise in the paper. Before long you have your own branch of a flight school or aerial tour company with a fleet of Cessna's, etc. You DREAM it and can MAKE it. My dream was to make an "International Flight Training Package" and it works. About 10 of those flights per month and you cannot imagine how great it is to say "I just got back from The Bahamas." "No I gave someone a flight lesson on how to go in and out of US Airspace."
It sells, and if you do a program for ... I dunno Montana, I guaruntee you there is something that locals will WANT to do and PAY for it. Don't sell yourself short and get paid 10/hr or even 15/hr. The least I ever get paid is 20/hr when I am doing primary training. 20/hr.... why would I make more money flying a Cessna 152 than flying a CRJ-200??????????????????????????? ANSWER THAT QUESTION. If your answer is "the future" then I want to know how you plan on living for the first year (THE PRESENT!!!!) and not losing every friend and loved one you have because you can't handle the stress of not being able to pay bills. I could go on forever, guys/gals, so with that I will leave you guys with a big "?" and ask you "What are you worth?"
I know I'm bragging a little, but I am also confused WHY AM I BRAGGING AND NOT YOU?

And stop knockin each other down! I know I did it a few months back, but I guess I grew up when I hit 21. People change, and some people cannot spell to save their lives but they are the smartest people you know. Still giving people a hard time about their spelling.... please, grow up and and at least ACT professional like you probably ARE.

Well...I just thought it was funny. I'm a UPS 757/767 F/O going to Capts school in a couple of weeks. If the guy wants to try to convince me that RAA students could possibly deserve/earn a jet type rating at 500 hours, then I'm happy to engage in an intelligent conversation with him. Until then, it's a waste of time. Not waist....

Just my .02
 

Everyone is responding to this issue based upon their own personal experiences; and that's cool :cool: ! I believe there is room for ALL of us no matter what "type" of flying each one us wishes to pursue.

I'm totally lost with this "what are you worth..." post. Seems to me that you need to straighten things out in your head first buddy! You start a thread asking people about what regional airline to pick, and now you're showing off that you earn big bucks as a CFI and that the airlines and their pilots can go to hell... or something like that? Who are you even talking to? Best wishes!

Lets face it
 

There are lots of young guys and girls out there that want to be flying the big tin can more than anything. I think its important that we respect eachother because we are all in the same community. No matter how we get our training shouldn't matter. What matters is quality. There are good students and bad students. Along with that, there are good captains and bad captains. But lets always remember the only enemy here is those SCABS out there flying jets for dirt....their the ones hurting the industry. Not us low time pilots getting hired and working for a reputible airline.

I gotta question for the RAA guys....

The the RJ type rating is optional, right? So, how many guys opt not to get it? How much more CFI time does a guy who doesn't get the type usually have before they move on? Do the agreements to hire pilots from RAA that some of the regionals have apply equally to those with a type and without?

Which scabs are these? I didn't know there were any scab operations in this US at this time?


I agree that quality is what matters, but unfortunately you cannot get quality out of a 300-400 hour PFT program...quality in this business requires dedication, initiative, and experience as a PIC. None of this stuff is rocket science, you don't need a 2 semester class on RJ systems or a type rating...you will get all that in 4-5 weeks at your first airline, assuming you can hack it. Anybody that really needs a 12 month prep session for regional airline new-hire training doesn't belong in this business, period.

A PFTer can sit FO in an RJ for several years and likely never be scared or have to make a tough decision...he has a babysiter after all. When he upgrades, he has no practice with cockpit leadership of handling tough situations.

But I appluad anyone, PFT or otherwise, who holds out for the better airlines. Unfortunately PFT folks will not have as many options, and some PFT programs lead to only one place.

This post was started 9-18 - Things have changed big time!
Best Wishes!

You are the big bad flap so let me ask you this. How many 500 hours type rated pilots have been in aircraft accidents? Yet its unsafe? So let me guess you are thinkin well it hasn't happend yet. Lets look at this in another aspect. How many drivers below the age of 20 get into crashes and kill themselves or multiple people? What is it now a days? 20 hours to get your drivers license? How does this kid deserve a license? Well they passed a test right? So do the type rating guys. If they can go up on an FAA check and they can pass then they deserve that typerating.

It is about half and half for the guys here that do the type and don't. The ones that don't, do not have the money and always tell us that they wish they did. By getting the type, the airlines have agreed to hire us with 400 to 500 hrs. TT and 100 ME instead of having to build 1000TT. It cuts the time in half. The type rating class doesnt take anywhere near 12 months so I dont know what rick air was talking about. It is about the same length of time as the airline training if not less. It is a very beneficial program because we have talked to several graduates that have been flying for regionals for a while and love what they are doing.

"If they can go up on an FAA check and they can pass then they deserve that typerating"

A type rating means they are Captain qualified on the jet (a least it used to). Are RAA guys who get their type qualifed to be RJ Capts at 500 hours? Giving DC9 types to 300 hour CAPT students and RJ types to 500 hour RAA students makes a mockery of experience necessary to be PIC on a jet. It's a marketing ploy, nothing more.

Look it up in the FARs if you get a type rating you are still qualified to be PIC. No where does it say that getting a type rating qualifies you to be captain. Thats what the captain upgrade class you are about to go through does.

"By getting the type, the airlines have agreed to hire us with 400 to 500 hrs. TT and 100 ME instead of having to build 1000TT"

What's wrong with building time to 1000 total. You make it sound like to do so is some sort of mistake?

Don't know how much RAA CFI's fly but do you really think getting a regional job six months faster is worth 13.5K?

So, half the guys who go to RAA have no special "in" for a job cause they didn't do the type? Just want to be clear with that.

"Look it up in the FARs if you get a type rating you are still qualified to be PIC"

"No where does it say that getting a type rating qualifies you to be captain"

Huh? PIC is Captain. Industry standard is you go to Capts upgrade training and you get a type rating. Not a marketing ploy designed to sell students to a flight school.

Why aren't RAA guys who get a type rating Captain qualified? Is the the CAE course different for RAA guys and a regional airline that might contract out it's Capt upgrades to CAE? Same sim same training facility but two different outcomes?

TheProfessionalPilot
Line Holder

Piper Aztec E, Captain, MEII
36 posts since Sep 2005

WILL FLY FOR MONEY!

A couple of other things, stop doing this! You look like a guy that would give someone $25,000 for a type rating some else will give you for free. You appearently already have money being an Aztec Captain and being able to afford RAA. If you have a hundred hours in the mighty Aztec E then you should be able to get on with Express.

Good Luck save your money! Oh one other thing, getting married at 21 and being away 4 nights a week is not going to work if you have to ask us what to do about it.