Dog Breathes way is easier than mine. :-)

Ah, thanks, not that I plan on ignoring anyone, but its good to know.

Industry come back
 

Hiring will resume again but it will never be like it was in regards to pay and working conditions. Even in the heydays of the late 1990's it still wasn't that great. Most of those who got hired then are still waiting to get off furlough.

SkyHigh

No. I don't currently work for any airline; I'm an AD Major in the USAF. A quick check of the military pay scale will show you that without the bonus, I make about 90k a year. With the bonus you can get up to 115k per year but I'm not currently under a bonus. I live in Phoenix and housing here is certainly not cheap. Houses in my neighborhood go for around $200 sq/ft. (I'm sure some of you live in more ludicrously priced areas, I only mention this to show that I don't live in a trailer park in the cheapest part of the country).

Uhhh...actually that's exactly what Skyhigh said:

" In an urban setting it takes at least 150K to fully fund a middle class lifestyle for a family of four." --Skyhigh

And I wasn't aware that my sub 200k existence "blew".

You guys need to re-orient: Family of 6, one in college, never made more than $115,000 in a year and I currently more than get by fine on $6500 a month. I have no idea why you think anything less than $16,000 a month ($200k a year) blows. I admire your high standards, but realistically, you don't have a lot of people to complain to, since that would put you in the top part of the 99th percentile of incomes in the US.

1 seat
 

1 Seat,

You have the benefit of starting life when homes and living expenses were less. Try to start over today and it would be very difficult to make it on under 115K and still keep a middle class lifestyle while attempting to fund retirement accounts, college savings plans, taxes, half a million dollar mortgages, auto insurance and the normal expenses of everyday living for six people.

100K isn't what it use to be and life isn't getting any cheaper. I know I became a pilot in part so I could afford a better life than had I not taken the extra efforts of college and flight training.

SkyHigh

And 1 seat. The military provides many benefits that we don't enjoy. Thank you for your service BTW. I would love to fly the F-16.

According to this web site http://www.cityrating.com/costofliving.asp you would have to make 157k to live like 115k if you moved from PHX to SEA. Interesting site.

Enter $115,000 in your origin city Phoenix and see what you will need on another city.

[QUOTE=SkyHigh;138107]1 Seat,

half a million dollar mortgages, [QUOTE


In some areas, maybe that's normal. In most it's definitely not. You can, in most places in the US, live a middle class life on $115,000. If you consider middle class entitles you to a couple of 745 BMWs every year, a 5000 sf new home, all the latest gadgets, a couple of mistress's, and sending two kids to Harvard med school, then I guess you can't. It's all in what you call "middle class."

one seat, I'm with you. There needs to be some serious re orientation here.

It still is better, considering the average 4-year graduate is making around $40,000/year.

That is the starting pay for a 4 year graduate. I'm not 22! By the mid 40s I need to really be raking it in to provide a comfortable retirement. And, like a lot of my colleagues, I waited to start a family so my kids will be starting college when I have to retire. That is one of the major reasons I want the option to work until 65.

Starting Pay
 

Keep in mind that the number you mentioned is the "starting" pay. In my 16 years as a professional pilot I made 42K at the very end. I was at a graduation party last spring and a few college grads had jobs starting out at 55K. One beat 60K.

Pilots spend more on training and it takes at least 3 to five years to reach 40K.

SkyHigh