Hats off to Skyhigh
 

Hey dude these guys have just not been doing it long enough to see the light. Aviation Blows . The pay has never been good in the regionals and never will.

define good? how much does a cpa make? how much does a plumber make? how much does the average American make? You guys are so stuck on the notion that if you don't make 200k, then you are broke! The regionals do pay good(relatively) and they are stable(after a few years). get a clue. If skyhigh didn't have in-laws helping him(with his business), he'd be running the register at home depot. The guy is full of beans, and it is obvious that he knows that he made a mistake by leaving.

I don't even know you anymore lol. Seems like only yesterday you bashed anyone for deciding to go this route.

Less than 200K blows. Sure, 60K/yr sounds good when you are 23 and single (Woot! I can buy a car). But, If you want to live in an expensive area (don't want to commute), want a nice house, want to send your kids to college and want to have a chance at a comfortable retirement, you better do something that can bring in 200K/yr.

Of course if you are a hot mama you can always hook up with a guy who makes 200K/yr and life is good. :p

Maybe you're right, and the pay will never be good at the regionals. Maybe you have also forgotten that no one just starts at the top in this world.

Oh Snap!!!

you can do ALL of that on 120k. if not, then you need a financial planner, cause you are ****ing your money away. hint: stop buying starbucks so much and stop dining out every night.

Exactly, but everyone sure wants to don't they?

Holy smokes! I actually agree with Hotmama.

lol, it's funny. My mom makes around 70k/yr, dad makes 80k/yr they have a nice house, two new cars, no credit card debt, or outstanding loans (minus the mortgage) and managed to put me through college minus the last 1800 bux i spent tooling around in a seneca to get a regional job. Amazing that all that could be had on a combined income of 150k/yr....hmmmm.

It's called living within your means, and goalsetting. How do you think first year regional FO's pay for rent/house, student loans, a car, maybe a girlfriend, and still manage to eat?

If you can't do that on less than $200K, it's a good thing you're a pilot. You'd never make it as a financial planner.

Based on Skyhigh's "logic" all police officers in the US make 100k per year, because he's aware of some that do in his area. Or, all construction laborers make 40-50k per year, because that's what they make in his area.

So, if we were to follow that out to its conclusion, *all* pilots make at least 200k, because some do.

See, nothing to worry about! :D

lol, ya how many times have we heard that tune about the 100k cop! whatever.

I have to agree with Hotmama. It seems to me that many airline pilots really don't like flying. I love flying, it is my dream to pilot a jet. I would rather make $50k a year and fly rather than sit behind a desk in an office and make $100k. Money isn't everything. Would you be happy if you were cleaning septic tanks for $100k a year?

If it would allow me to retire at 30, you bet!!

100K for the cops is about right in my area. Many make way more on overtime.

Where are you living? Baghdad?

-LAFF

HOLY SMOKE MAN,, THIS HAS SPOILED ROTTEN LITTLE KID WRITTEN ALL OVER IT!!! hahahahaha

Well, given the risks that cops run every day, I think they should get paid that or more. ;) A very close friend of mine is a cop in Colorado and he makes substantially less than that.

I think some of Skyhigh's points are valid and definitely worth consideration, but I disagree with the arguments that he makes in support of them.

I read these posts and feel very poor. I can remember when I was a Pvt in the Army making 18k a year and my wife and I got along just fine. Now I work for a Major Airline in Dispatch making twice that. Now My wife and I feel like we just barley get by(part of the Problem is inflation and cost if living keeps going up). Basically the more you make the more you spend, so everyone needs take control of of their spending habits, but yes aviation is getting bad. I blame it on greedy Airline VP-Directors and other Executives.
Management are the only one making good money in the airlines. Just my 2 cents.

ok. plus, they have about the highest suicide rate of any profession!

My mom has never made more than $50k/yr...she and my dad got divorced when I was 2, and she never remarried, nor has she received child support. She raised two kids on her own, in newport beach, and I did go to college.

Its called living within your means, budgeting and sacrificing unnecessary things.

Does that mean I want to live my whole life only making 50k? Hell no. But at least I know that even with the declining airline wages, I will be able to manage.

Ya, I would love to have a bullseye on my chest and make 100K.

:rolleyes:

Not in Seattle with 3 kids AND have options like private school and child care. Oh sure, it can be done. I'm doing it. But, my retirement plans counts on me getting a raise. Maybe you have not taken a realistic look at what you will need in retirement.

It IS a good thing I'm a pilot.

He could live in San Jose. They can make 100K easily. Also, Cops have very generous disability plans. San Jose cops have up to 90% disability available after they make seniority.

Guilty. I like the good life because I had the good life. I grew up in a big house and traveled but my parental units never paided for flying or college or any of those things. Still haveing a stable comfortable home upbringing made achievieng all that much easier.

Your mom got the house in the divorce, no? I wonder how she would manage a family in Newport Beach today and buy a house. Never underestimate how much more difficult it is today to raise a family than it was when we were kids.

Listen all you knuckleheads, you need to make as much as you can, while you can because this career is VERY volatile. Ask a Delta or United guy how his financial situation is today compared to before 911. Many many pilots have gone from the top to the bottom in a heartbeat. In addition to medical, your career could end for a multitude of reasons of which you have no control. Sure, If you could earn 150K/yr every year for a 30 year career, you can make it. No doubt. But, you will very likely not have a 30 year career of uninterrupted earnings. You all understand that right? Now does anyone have any questions?

No street cop is making over $100k (without working a massive amount of overtime), the only guys making $100k are Sheriffs, Chiefs, Deputy Chiefs, and maybe Captains for the larger departments. These are the same people who have been on the job for 25+ years. Most Police Officers retire at or before making Lieutenant, let alone Captain (especially in the larger departments).

Further a lot of these guys who are pulling in the big bucks as cops, are working massive amounts of overtime, and use maybe 4 sick days in 25 years. It takes a lot of hard work and dedication to bring in over $100k as a cop, along with a lot of years on the job, not to mention you are constantly dealing with people who have no respect for you. The pay and benefits are decent, but just like with an airline career, there are a lot of negatives, and there are a lot of effects on the family as well.

I know, I love her..........................:eek:

Man that is tough living right there. Sounds like $200k and your just making it by in Seattle. I wonder how the average resident of Seattle is able to make it on a meager $41,634 a year, which is 26% over the national average yearly income (2004).

Really? Check out the recruitment page for the San Jose police dept. http://www.joinsjpdblue.com/
At the top it says the top step officer pay is $107,835. I believe that is for patrol officers. I don't know how long it takes to get to the top step though. Also notice how they are actively recruiting guys to come over from other departments and offering credit for longevity. Retirements of 90% after 30 years and 70% after 25 years.

Don't get me wrong. I would not like to be a cop. But your rebuttal tries to discount the argument by pointing out that only sheriffs and Chiefs etc get the top pay. OF COURSE. As we progress in our careers shouldn't we expect to make detective, Lieutenant, chief or whatever. I would equate it to upgrade for pilots. (I know not everyone makes chief.)

Look into the forecasts for the boomer retirements forthcoming. You will LEARN that there is a crisis on the horizon and the average $41K is not cutting it.

Here is another thing to consider when it comes to wages. When you see a statistic talking about average wages, consider that a great many people in this country don't earn a wage. They are small business owners or sole proprieters.

RAISE YOUR EXPECTATIONS PEOPLE! then maybe you will be able to negotiate something other than your pitiful $35K/yr.

Oh come on its simple.........................most take the abuse of the low regional pay becuase they think they will be at a "major" in a few years

i love you too, monkey boy;) and to mike: i live in chicago; the taxes, property, and costs here are outrageous, but 120k is plenty!

The Top Step Officer is the top of the payscale. They are probably in charge of the patrol unit, I would think the ranking would be somewhere around atleast a Lieutenant, but I'm not sure as it all depends on size of the Police Department. The bigger the department the more Sargeants and Lieutenants make, but the harder it is to become one.

Most Police Departments are willing to recruit officers from other Departments, because they already got through the Academy, so there is no chance of them dropping/failing out of training, since they went through the training.

Alot of things pop up that will hurt your chances at promotions. Similair to the Airlines, you have to know people, and be able to keep people on your side. There are alot of politics in Police Departments, all of which can make or break you. It also has to do with timing, if the top guys are not retiring, then there will be no upward movement, no promotions. Like I have said, realisiticly most Officers make it to Sargeant (in a medium sized Police department) before retiring. You also do not become a Police Officer because of the Pay and Benefits, because you will quickly realize that there is alot more to it than that, being a Police Officer is something you have to want to do, regardless of pay and benefits.

Mike...You're asking too much...Just tell me how I can get my a$$ into a RJ and log jet time? Thats all I'm interested in. What you're asking for sounds a lot like self-respect and hard work..Show me the easy way.

-LAFF

I am all for raising expectations and increasing pay, but what I am pointing out is that you do not need $200k to support a family of three in Seattle. Very few people make $200K, even with advanced degrees and the like.

I have buddies (Bankers in Manhatten) that spend that much on a car............................... I have other friends who make 100k doing some of the most rediculous useless jobs......................

What kind of lifestyle do most regional FO's live? Days on vs. days off for instance. Schedules? It can't be all bad or people wouldn't do it. I'm in the process of getting my private right now. I'm 29 and tired of taking X-Rays of broken people.
Kevin
What can one expect to make after 5 years in the business?

Politics is one of the best things about being a pilot. I can't imagine how much BS you would have to put up with to "make it" in a political system.

I don't begrudge the guys for flying RJs for low pay. I have not figured out how to "fix" the system but I'm pretty sure a national seniority list or some such is part of the answer. I just don't like the idea of guys thinking $50k is great money.

I want more. I don't really think I deserve it so I'll have to demand it.

Wait!!!??? Who kidnapped HotMamaPilot and replaced her with someone who actually makes sense??!!!

If being a cop is so great I dont know why I've run into countless ex-cops here at the airlines - And by the way ex-cops make horrible sim instructors or checkairman. :D