Cujo665

Look up 117.25. Read the required rest prior to beginning a FDP.
Then show where it says this doesn’t apply on day one.

Flymeaway

I think you’re ignoring a key part of that sentence in 117.25. The minimum 10 hour rest requirement ends immediately preceding the FDP, but begins immediately following the previous duty assigned by the certificate holder. There’s no 10 hour look back in the text of 117.25. You look back to the previous duty period. That rest period, which includes commuting, either by car, hotel van, or airplane, must have an 8 hour sleep opportunity in it somewhere, but it doesn’t state that it must be within the last 10 hours of that rest period, only that at least one was available during the rest period at some point.

Additionally, the flight crew member must be fit for duty, which includes many factors, to include when in that rest period, which could be a week or more, his most recent 8 hour sleep opportunity occurred. It is up to the flight crew member to consider all factors and determine his fitness for duty.

UnderCenter

http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/...rpretation.pdf

This seems to provide some clarification in part 3.

Flymeaway

Back on topic to the OP:

Whether commuting is worth it depends a lot on your personal situation. A few questions to ask yourself:

Do you NEED the additional money? Or maybe, how much do you need it?

Do you have a spouse/kids?

How easy is it for you to lose that 2 hours of sleep every week?

Can you commute in 1 leg?

How many flights/day between the 2 cities and how much competition might you have for the jumpseat?

How much of your pay will you have to spend on hotels/crashpads? And how much does that close the gap between the airline you'd be in base with?

How long do you expect to have to commute to reserve?

How long do you expect it will be until you can hold a commutable line?

I commuted from DEN to the eastern time zone for a month and a half...not that long. My commute was 1 leg with a good 8 flights/day between the 2 cities...also not bad. And I HATED it. I hated it to the point I've withdrawn my apps from 2 legacy airlines because I can't move for family reasons and they don't have DEN bases.

It took me ALL DAY to make that one leg commute, once I considered needing 2 chances to get the jumpseat, and I lost the 2 hours in time zones, plus my drive plus the 30 mins it takes to get from the DEN employee lot to KCM, plus the 20 mins from KCM to a gate, plus the 30+ mins you have to be early to get the jumpseat, plus a fudge factor in case something went a little wrong (traffic, etc.), plus the wait for the hotel shuttle at the other end. I had no idea how quickly everything would add up. I would literally commute home after my reserve block, get in after midnight, spend the day at home alone getting whatever honey-do stuff done that I could get done, see my kids from when they got home from their after school activities until bedtime, and have to leave the next morning to head back to work for another 6 days. Some weeks I got one extra day off, though never a weekend.

Since I got based half an hour from the airport...life is awesome. I'm still on reserve, but I spend 22+ nights per month home with my kids, get enough flying to keep me proficient and happy, but enough time off to keep me sane, and I don't have to worry about my kids starting to wonder who that strange man is hugging Mommy.

Now...my wife works and between the two of us we make enough to be comfortable. We'd all like more money, but any extra I'd make would be fun money, not the difference between my kids having dinner or not. If I was solely responsible for supporting my family, things might be different. Also, I've only ever been on reserve, I'm sure the gap in QOL is less once you hold a line. As I said, every situation is different, so I can't recommend to you what to do, only give you things to think about.

I will agree with some of the previous posters though...if you feel like you need to chase a check enough to consider commuting two time zones west to east, why did you decide to dismiss Endeavor and the AA wholly owned airlines? They'd pay you a lot more than Commutair would, it's the same nightmarish commute, and you get the flow, just in case. The only scenario that I can imagine that would make sense at all is if you expected to be on reserve for a long time and you had family a short drive from a junior Commutair base that have a spare bedroom for you. And even in that case...Endeavor, and the AA WO would have to have really long reserve expectations to make it worth it. If you can't move but the money is that important, go to 9E. If it isn't, find an airline where you can live in base.

Flyhayes

Lets try it this way:

(e) No certificate holder may schedule and no flightcrew member may accept an assignment for any reserve or flight duty period unless the flightcrew member is given a rest period of at least 10 consecutive hours immediately before beginning the reserve or flight duty period measured from the time the flightcrew member is released from duty. The 10 hour rest period must provide the flightcrew member with a minimum of 8 uninterrupted hours of sleep opportunity.

If I'm off two days between trips that gives me 48 hours off. That falls well within the "at least 10 consecutive hours". The 8 hours of uninterrupted sleep opportunity can occur at any time during those 48 hours and still fall within the legal frame work.

Cujo665

No, read it again. It’s saying rest can’t begin until duty ends, otherwise the company would do 10 hours from when you set the brake. The FDP ends when you set the brake. The rest period can’t begin until you are off duty. There is a difference, and for once it’s in our favor. This is their way of saying minimum time between duty periods is 10 hours. During that 10 hours you must have had an 8 hour sleep opportunity. Doesn’t mean you slept, just that you had the opportunity. You can be in rest for an unlimited number of hours. It just can’t be less than 10 since you need 10/8 immediately prior to reporting for duty.
Commuting over 2 hours before sign in precludes having had the 8 portion of the 10. So, you then read the next section which says, notify the certificate holder when you don’t get the required 10/8.... which is exactly what you do on days 2,3 and 4.... so, where’s the exemption for day 1?

Cujo665

You missed this part....

You can have as much time off as you want. The only 10 hours that counts is immediately prior to starting the FDP.

UnderCenter

http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/...rpretation.pdf

Flymeaway

The “immediately before beginning the reserve or flight duty period...” just means they can’t give you your rest period, then have you teach a 4 hour ground school class, then start an FDP out to table B limits. They’d have to include the ground school as part of your FDP.

The “10 hour rest period” is still not limited to only 10 hours. It goes back to the most recent duty you performed for the company, and the 8 hour sleep opportunity just has to be in there somewhere. Perhaps it would have been more clear if their sentence read, “The (at least) 10 hour rest period must provide the flight crew member...” but I’m sure they felt that would be redundant and a bit cumbersome.

Flyhayes

Cujo,
Next you need to read and understand the FAA's definition of "rest"