Outof410

Just answering the title, NO.

Your welcome in advance.

Cujo665

Rest is what both YOU and the company must ensure you have prior to beginning an FDP. When you are on days off, (often your prospective 30 hours is part of the days off), you HAVE been given the required rest prior to beginning the FDP on day one. You DO have at least 10 hours free from duty before the FDP which allows an 8 hour sleep opportunity.

The FAR does specify when. It says the 10 hours (that counts) is the 10 hours immediately prior to the beginning of the FDP.

It does not say you must lockdown for 8 of the 10 hours. It simply says you must have had the opportunity for 8 hours of sleep.

If your commute is more than 2 hours before sign in, then by definition you did not have 8 hours of sleep opportunity in the 10 hours free from duty immediately before the FDP.

Here:

https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-id...se14.3.117_125

117.25
e) No certificate holder may schedule and no flightcrew member may accept an assignment for any reserve or flight duty period unless the flightcrew member is given a rest period of at least 10 consecutive hours immediately before beginning the reserve or flight duty period measured from the time the flightcrew member is released from duty. The 10 hour rest period must provide the flightcrew member with a minimum of 8 uninterrupted hours of sleep opportunity.

(f) If a flightcrew member determines that a rest period under paragraph (e) of this section will not provide eight uninterrupted hours of sleep opportunity, the flightcrew member must notify the certificate holder. The flightcrew member cannot report for the assigned flight duty period until he or she receives a rest period specified in paragraph (e) of this section.


Go read and show me anywhere in the FAR that the required rest prior to beginning a FDP does not apply on Day 1 because the pilot opted to commute.

Section (f) requires the crewmember to notify the company when they didn't get 10/8. So, in the view of the company when you report for duty, you had the required rest or you would have called them. It's a simple don't ask, don't tell for them. They aren't responsible for what they don't know.

The rules changed after Colgan, yet what they wrote isn't what they do.

DarkSideMoon

The fact that the FAA, who's sole purpose is to make life difficult for pilots, hasn't gone after the MASSIVE percentage of pilots that commute in same day, is evidence enough for me that you're wrong.

Cujo665

It’s don’t ask, don’t tell....
The FAA doesn’t police when you sleep until after an accident. The law is there; it’s clear. Your response when not getting 10/8 is delineated clearly to notify the certificate holder. As far as the FAA is concerned you’re all complying with it. Just like you comply with ALL company preflight duties during your 20 minute turn.

DarkSideMoon

Write the FAA and get an LOI that agrees with you and I'll happily admit I was wrong.

Cujo665

Nobody wants the answer..... that’s the issue

Do you dispute 10/8 is required before starting your FDP on day 2, day 3, or day 4? No, nobody disputes that, and everybody calls the certificate holder to extend rest when they didn’t get 10/8 before the FDP.

Now, show us where that exact same reg you quote to the company on days 2,3 & 4 says anything about not applying on day 1....



It doesn’t effect me, so I won’t be the one writing.

galaxy flyer

Like a lot of things in aviation—it depends. J/S DEN-LAX, sign in and fly a work day, not a problem. Do an overnight cargo J/S ride with a couple hours on a recliner, sign in at dawn, finish a 12-hour duty period uneventfully, nobody’s going to investigate. Finish that day in a smoking hole and your fatigue level will be part of the flight crew portion of the NTSB report.

Remember, in today’s world an unbelievable amount of information is left behind in your daily actions—phone records, hotel electronic keys, internet log-ins, investigations are very thorough. Heck, blood chemistry today can inform the ME how tired you were. There have been disciplinary hearings where hotel keys were used as evidence. You’re not on lockdown, but you can be traced.

It’s really a matter of professionalism. When you sign in, you are certifying that you are rested and medically and emotionally fit to fly. Can you really say that after a five hour drive or an overnight commute?

GF

rickair7777

It's a rest/sleep OPPORTUNITY.

The company has to ensure you have the OPPORTUNITY. What you do with the opportunity is up to you. If you abuse it and something bad happens, then it's on you.

Cujo665

And when you haven’t had the opportunity you are required to notify the certificate holder. It’s right in the reg.
As I said, it’s dont ask, don’t tell.... but everybody with over a 2 hour commute that isn’t notifying the certificate holder is violating the reg. It’s black and white.
You’re correct, don’t screw up - or get hit by somebody else - and nobody would ever know.
Yet the unions allow the members to subject themselves to operating illegally under a nod and wink because the airlines are too cheap to positive space people to work as a DH leg.

Flyhayes

Cujo, there is a distinct difference between where the company must give you 10 hours of rest and you as a crewmember showing up well rested for your duty assignment. The first is simply a scheduling issue. The second is up to the individual to determine.