Aviation Universities
 

I understand that its frustrating to see people with better connections than others. Some guys get great breaks, but life is all about risk and our industry is no different. Are you willing to pay more tuition at Riddle, UND, Purdue or others for a chance at a great internship? I know quite a few friends who got to a major before they were 25. I also have friends who who went to aviation schools and are still flight instructing in their home towns. Its not better or worse than any other path, its just a different mix of risk and reward.

I respect guys who took the part 61 route at a local school. I think its great when guys at ATP get great results. Some folks choose the aviation university route. It may not be for you, and some of them might not be very humble, but by looking down on them aren't you just as bad as they are?

College was the best time of my life!

Why would I tell other people to go to a school like Embry Riddle (with their 1 to 9 girl to guy ratio) when they can go to a normal college (save lots of money) and have the best time of their life.
No thank you Embry Riddle.

Why would someone want to go to school in the middle of nowhere in North Dakota. North Dakota has less than 1 million residents. I don't even think it deserves to be a state. My college life was full of adventures in the mountains, rivers, the great outdoors, large cities, cool towns.... There was always something to do. Can you say that about UND? No. You can't. Trust me, I have 2 good friends who went there. One regretted it and left after the first year, the second stayed with it but always b*tched about North Dakota.

Purdue, I can't really knock them. They are a regular, D1 school, with a very NORMAL campus and student population outside of aviation. I think majoring in aviation is a mistake.

i majored in aviation....man, i made a huge mistake....all those MTV parties on the beach...wet t-shirt contests...penrods...the oyster pub...sugar shack...yearround sunshine.....and then to top it all off when i retire at 60 i'll have 25 years as a widebody captain at FDX...
HUGE MISTAKE! :D

I agree with that as well. I am about to graduate from Texas Tech with an Agricultural Economics degree and I have had a rediculously awesome time in college. Also when you go to a big school you can get all of your flying done on the side. You don't have to have a degree before you start flight instructing. I have about 2000TT and 500ME and I'm not graduating from school until may then I'm going to RAH. Join a frat, go on some road trips, go to mexico on a whim, get black listed from at least one sorority (just kidding), I have known a couple of guys that went to riddle and they weren't happy. You don't get any contacts or anything and plus an aviation science degree is worthless. If you go to an aviation school, you will probably be instructing after college for a while instead of going straight to a jet.

I went to Purdue. We have a bar called Harry's. It's always packed because it's cold outside 8 mos., and you have to drink a lot to make the chicks pretty. In fact "Go Ugly Early" isn't a marketing slogan, it's a way of life.

On the upside, IND and ORD are short drives, and since IN doesn't sell liquor on sunday, rent a 152 fly to IL and buy some cases (since you probably drank your "Sunday Reserve" Saturday)

What Springer said...but Jake's > Harry's.

Can't go wrong at a school with 38,000 undergrads and only 600ish total in the whole aviation program.

Wow dude, got a complex against UND? Why go to UND? Turn to ESPN 2 RIGHT NOW and that is one reason. There are 13,000 students at UND, 11,000 that are NOT AVIATION. Grand Forks is a good time. Aviation ended the minute class ended for me. Have you ever been to ND? Didn't think so......so what all mighty school did you go to?

My beefs with UND
 

Big-arse skeeters up there in Grand Forks...plus its too damn cold and windy for my south-of-the-Mason/Dixon line behind!

PS - Nobody from a temperate climate cares about hockey...is it football season yet?

:D
;)

There's nothing the experience of going to a big twelve school.

I would absolutely agree with all that. It is cold, and the damn skeeters. However, I would rather deal with them then the damn spiders and snaked in the south. I lived in NC for a year, finding brown recluse spiders, black widows in the doorway, and water moccasins slithering across the FBO ramp was too much for me. BTW, coldest I ever say in ND was -42 straight temp, with -80 wind chill...:D

You my friend are a moron. ****. Quit talking about things you have no experience with. All you have is hear-say. "I heard, I heard, I heard" thats all you got. So until you experience it, ****!

wow, so this is a debate about aviation universities? i'll stay completely out of this one, but wow.

not so fast mark, you mean 65:D

Seems like most folk here went to ERAU, UND or purdue. am i the only Lewis U (chicago) grad on this sight? btw, whoever said that North Dakota shouldn't be a state....bite your tongue!

unless your family is super rich, I would say go to a normal school and get your ratings as cheap as you can get them. Pilots are in such high demand right now it doesnt matter what name is on your degree. I know riddle and UND grads that are paying back 800-1200 dollars a month in student loans, that is nearly what you make in the first year. I went to Indiana State and loved every minute of it, kick ass school, and awesome flight training. If your going to a university, try to find one that still has part 61 training, at Indiana State there were two flight school "contractors" that forced competetion to keep the prices reasonable.

You're right, every non aviation university student will get a flying job right out of school! and have 2000 hrs and 500 me....not to mention all those UND, Riddle, and Purdue guys will be flight instructing for so much longer than say someone like....you! And they won't be able to flight instruct part time either because they don't have a degree.

And the contacts! Totally! I've haven't met one of the VP's from Delta or the directors of hiring from AWAC or ASA. JetBlue and UPS captains weren't on campus yesterday and I didn't even hear about anyone flying a CRJ sim. Man life here sucks. Not to mention that I guess I can't even have "fun" and do things on a whim. All because I went to an aviation university.

So tell me about soybeans.

ND sucks alright, but it's worth the flying and the ladies. All blondes up here. UND has both the flying and the college atmosphere to experience, unlike riddle. Plus if you work for an airline up here (like me), you can get leave every once in a while.

if i hear one more damn thing about their CRJ sim or purdues 727, i think i am going to cut my nuts off, hit someone across the face with them, and hurry my ass to the hospital to repair the damage. My god, flying a "sim" in a "rigorous" college program still doesnt have near the value of actually going out there and flight instructing, or flying some charter for a year or two.

you're right too! i think teaching C172 systems and loading approaches into the KLN 94 for two more years would help me alot more than getting even one hour in a level 6 crj/727 sim.

I went to UND and I don't think it was much more expensive than going to a different university. I had the tuition receprocity though. But I do have to say don't make quick judgements, although it is very very cold up there it was still definitely fun, people there party just as much if not more than other schools and I liked that it was not all aviation, most of my close friends were NOT aviation majors. And as for having to flight instruct for long... I flight instructed for only 6 months, not at UND but you don't have to instruct at the same place you go to school at. so I don't really have an opinion about what is better but I thought i should stick up for UND because you shouldn't judge it if you don't know anything about it.

amen to that

how about flying imc in the mountains in mexico at night in a 310 or dropping off real passengers at leadville, co. Did you do anything like that at riddle, oh i forgot, you guys have an rj simulator so must be good. Have you ever actually gone missed because the runway wasn't in sight? Experience can't be bought. period.

The above goes with this.

MARK: You said it all wrong dude. You have to say it like Julia " Big mistake, Big, Huge, I have to shopping now. "..................:rolleyes:

I made a whole post defending UND but for some reason it didn't post! well the point was its not that bad and I had fun. Also you don't have to instruct at the same place you go to school at so it doesn't mean you'll be instructing for years.

Hey, nobody mentioned W. Mich... another Div. 1 school with a male/female ratio of 45/55 (actually more chicks than dudes... at least when I went there). But it was in-state tuition for me, so in comparison to the other colleges I could've gone to, I got a steal. :)

That's funny. I had a great time in college too. So what NoDak has less than a million residents? Grand Forks was cold (duh), but it was certainly a college town.

I too had plenty of adventures- enjoying the great outdoors, rivers, lakes, large cities (within a reasonable distance). I also made time to get out skiing at least 2 times a year. Not too difficult with Montana a day's drive away.

College is what you make of it. UND has a normal campus setting, with more than just aviation/aerospace. (with 10000+ on campus or affiliated with the U, it isn't exactly a small specialized "college"). Plus if you like hockey, there's few schools that can match.

There's more to school than drinking and parties (although I can say that I did plenty of both in my 4 years at UND)...

its not about the systems or the technical flying, its about building some experience in an airplane, (granted not a real big airplane) but none the less you learn so much from flight instructing. And the reason most people fail out of 121 training is lack of IFR skills, and teaching instruments really make your instrument skills better, beeing able to talk through an instrument approach while your looking outside and talking your student through his scan really helps. At least it did for me, but hey, i didnt get a chance to fly a crj sim in college, but I made it through training fine and i guarantee you my student loan payments are 1/3 of any UND grad or Purduebee. So yess, I believe flight instructing for a year, is MORE valuable than one hour of training in a CRJ sim before your ready to fly something like that anyways.

I flew on the side by taking a different degree that allowed more flexibility. I flew turbo-props on the side and graduated with 1500 TT 1200 ME turbine. Granted my story isn't typical, but anywhere you go you have to rise to the top.

That statement is very dangerous. If you don't seek contacts you won't get them, but my university had internships with all 6 legacy carriers not to mention an 8 month program with FedEx and internships with almost every other airline, including SWA, Alaska, etc. Just recently quite a few corporate internships have come about.

All those stories you guys tell sound fun. I'm not argueing that you will get laid more at an aviation university. Just that like any school that specializes it will offer more oppurtunities for advancement. Obviously the regionals are hiring, but if you want to go to a major/Cargo/good corporate gig and your father doesn't fly there already, an internship can help.

Bottom line:

Who cares how the guy next to you got where he is, if you're happy with what you did then why bust on him?

I will say that one big benefit to going to a major aviation program is the network within aviation that you have the potential to build (far greater than if you do your training at a local FBO or "pilot factory" like ATP/American Flyers.

Heck, I know 5 UND grads/classmates that live in my little town here in SW VA, simply because there's an airline base here (Piedmont). Everywhere that I overnight, I have somebody that I can call to have a beer. Not a lot of FBO students can say that.

Those networks can land you a job.

if you instruct at an FBO for a while you will make contacts with other instructors who have contacts with others, so yeah anytime you overnight in a town where one of your former coworkers lives, you can go have a beer with them. And anyways, most overnights, you have to go to the hotel and beers there are at least 4-5 dollars, and thats a lot when your loans dictate 66% of your income on FO pay.

One of the things that they mentioned when I interviewed at RAH was how impressed they were that I did NOT go to an aviation college. They see it as much more well rounded to go to a real school and get a real degree. Not that your degree isnt real but what more do you know about aviation since you have an aviation science degree from a pilot school?

Doesn't take much to impress RAH...

I guarantee you anyone with an aviation degree has a much better understanding of human factors, high-speed aerodynamics and physiology than yourself.

And I recently flew with a UND grad that absolutely loved it. I guess that's just proof that what's best for one guy ain't necessarily best for every guy.

Do what's best for you, based on your own personal preferences and resources. There's nothing magic about having an Aviation-related degree, nor is it a curse. Most importantly, do something that will make your college experience enjoyable and worthwhile.




I'm glad you mentioned reciprocity, because it's a great deal. If your state does not offer a particular program or major, you should be able to attend a school in another state with that program at the Resident tuition rate. In other words, if you live in Wisconsin, and Wisconsin doesn't have an Aviation program, you should be able to attend UND at the Resident tuition rate (if you take the Avaition program, of course).

Does anybody happen to have a list of states without aviation programs, and a list of schools that honor the reciprocity agreement?

(Hmmm . . . quick look at UND's website reveals this may only apply to Minnesota. <scratchin' head> Could that be right?

Never mind -- further investigation reveals:

If you are an undergraduate student and claim residency in Manitoba, Saskatchewan, Arkansas, Arizona, California, Colorado, Hawaii, Idaho, Kansas, Michigan, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, New Mexico, Oregon, South Dakota, Utah, Washington, Wyoming, a WUE/Contiguous/MHEC Reciprocity form must be submitted and approved to receive the reduced WUE/Contiguous/MHEC tuition rate.

So, what's WUE/Contiguous/MHEC, you ask? Me, too. So I looked some more:

WUE - (Western Undergraduate Exchange)
The following states qualify for the WUE tuition rate: Alaska, Arizona, California, Colorado, Hawaii, Idaho, Montana, Nevada, New Mexico, Oregon, South Dakota, Utah, Washington and Wyoming.
(Undergraduate Only)


Contiguous States The following states qualify for the Contiguous tuition rates: Montana, South Dakota, Manitoba, Saskatchewan.

Midwestern Higher Education Consortium
The following states qualify for the MHEC tuition rates: Michigan, Missouri, Nebraska, Kansas, Wisconsin.
(Undergraduate Only)

These terms are apparently unique to this region, and (in the case of Contiguous) the state. I'll bet there are similar arrangements in other states, as well.


Yikes -- learned more than I really intended to, there. :))




.

You are absolutely correct. I have never been to North Dakota, nor do I ever plan on going there.

I love to travel. I have been to 42 states, and spent a decent amount of time in most of them. The only ones I haven't been to are North Dakota, Arkansas, Oklahoma, Minnesota, New Hampshire, Maine, Delaware, and Alabama. The difference is I would like the rest of these states. No desire to spend time there. I think the school would be alright if they picked it up and moved it to any of the other 49 states. There is just something about North Dakota being the most undesirable place to live.

YES!!!

I am proud to say I attend UND and am loving my time here. However, I have some friends who are in the aviation program who don't enjoy it as much and are pursuing other options to achieve their flight training goals because they feel it will suit them better. Jsut because you start out going to one school doesn't mean you're locked into their program until completion. A handful of friends back home are transfering schools (nonaviation) because they don't like the atmospheres, curriculum, etc. and will be just as well off as my friends here at UND.

Grand Forks is in the middle of nowhere compared to where I come from, but it sure beats having to listen to old hippies mourn a tree that was blown over in a park in my town (true story). And the cold sure does suck, but it makes earning in the region of $20 per hour in warmer temps a lot more attractive. just kidding. In all reality though, once i graduate here, I'm getting the hell out of this place.

ryane946, there is a worse place for a flight school or anything for that matter, and it's called West Virginia. It may be warmer, but have you seen the movie Wrong Turn or the Hills Have Eyes? Stuff like that probably happens there every day

speaking as someone who has an aviation degree, except for all the crap in the jeppesen books and the asa written and oral preps, most aviation majors dont know sh**!

It's unfortunate that you have such a narrow mind. North Dakota is a very beautiful state, and quite unique when compared to the other states in the union. Even when it's cold outside, the weather can bring an uncanny stillness and beauty. During the summer, the plains come alive with color, and the western part of the state is quite incredible (It is after all the badlands).

As far as places to live, if the weather wasn't so cold, it would rank up there as one of my higher choices to relocate to. I've never met people who are more welcoming or friendly. I've seen a North Dakotan SACRIFICE HIS OWN HOUSE TO SAVE HIS NEIGHBORS (during the flood of 1997), and I've served proudly on active duty with ND guard members on several occassions.

If you don't want to go there, fine. It's your loss (and North Dakota's gain). But to say that you know the state, and know it's a most undesirable place to live without ever experiencing it firsthand is pretty short sighted.

you ever been to Texas?

So where do you work with all the valuable experience you gained since you attended airplane college. I highly doubt you understand those things better than myself either. Do you hold an atp yet or better yet a cfi? In my opinion you can't truely learn until you teach it anyway. The point is the things you had "learn" for your degree that you say would set you apart is the same things everyone else has to learn anyway, its in the pts.