Considering Frontier?
 

A lot of ugliness going on there right now.....

https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/f...ots-fired.html

They are also cancelling pilot vacations in August. Frontier is a toxic environment right now! Management’s new strategy is to set the operation up to implode then blame and discipline the pilots.

The contract is nowhere in sight and we’ve been abandoned by the NMB.

Considering how much money most people will spend on their hotel in training coupled with the pay cut, and commuting to reserve for over a year, it’s cheaper to buy your own Airbus type rating if that’s what you're after.


Frontier Pilot Facts

http://www.frontierbadbargain.com

110% READY TO STRIKE!!!!

If nobody goes there, they’ll have a contract quickly. Just saying...

Wow. I had no idea things were that bad there!

Why is this in the regional forum?

Because some regional pilots might be considering applying there.

Why are you concerned about it being in the regional forum?

There are regional pilots considering every major/lcc/acmi out there. Should we crowd the regional forums with threads about each one?

If they have these problems, yes. But seriously, "crowd the regional forums?"

You may not have noticed but underutilized threads in this section of the regional forum just sort of slide off the bottom of the page. And some of the currently active threads - like "ties in the workplace," will undoubtedly go that way. This one too, eventually. And you know, nobody is really COMPELLING you to read or post on this thread. It's entirely voluntary.

My point was it’s in the wrong sub-forum, but whatever. You seem to know best on every subject you care to grace us with.

And you seem to care far less about the content of my postings than just the fact that you object to me doing the posting at all. Have I wronged you in some previous life? Because I certainly don't recall doing it in this life. Yes, I have opinions - most people do. And you are perfectly free to agree, disagree, refute them, or just ignore them altogether. That seems to be enough for most people. Why isn't it for you? You seem offended by my very existence.

Lol. Don’t flatter yourself.

Theres always gotta be one right? Ignore him and he'll go away.

Since F9 seems to be firing probationary pilots willy-nilly as a negotiating tactic, it's probably worthwhile having this post here. Would suck to end up right back at your old regional six months later, minus a few years of seniority.

Im glad for the posting, the more information that is out there the better in my opinion.

Seeing that kind of behavior on behalf of F9 made me reconsider going there.

Thanks for posting. More info out there the better.

Well there you go. Sorry for the drift.

Lighten up, regional forum police.

I wouldn’t have seen this otherwise. Thanks OP for posting.

If the company cancelling over 100 pilot vacations in AUG, or getting fired for calling in sick on probation still doesn’t phase you and you still want to blow money on a hotel for the interview, just because they called. The airline is owned by investors. They don’t give a rat’s a$$ about employees, passengers, or on time performance. Heck, they don’t give a crap about the airline, except for the the fact that it’s a cash machine for them. They make millions on every aircraft delivery. They sell them to a leasing company and lease them back. They don’t own anything. They’ve sold off as many gates as they could get away with without completely destroying the airline. They have barely any assets. They have a certificate, gates at various airports, HQ people, flight attendants and Pilots. It is basically an Airbus leaseback company that happens to have scheduled service. I’m not sure how long Frontier is even going to be around. Don’t waste your time. Whatever they’re promising they are lying. Upgrades are well over three years and climbing. And you’ll be on reserve for well over a year. You might hear stories of a guy getting off reserve in 6 mos but it sure as heck won’t be you. If you’re after an Airbus type raring, it would be cheaper and much better quality of life if you just bought your own type. If you were hitting on someone at a bar and they were an awful person with anal warts, herpes and would mug you and leave you for dead if you took them back to your room with you, wouldn’t you want someone who knew that to tell you so you could go talk to someone else. Well let me just say there is a reason Frontier calls first. But if you still want to get into bed with them, it’s your call.

Frontier Pilot Facts

http://www.frontierbadbargain.com

100% READY TO STRIKE!!!!

Sadly, some sucker will come on the forum telling his sad story about how F9 is his dream job. He or she will say how they love animals or some other nonsense. The pilot machine will keep churning.
Sad, we have not come together as a group and said, Enough with the BS.

It gets better folks! All probationary pilots will have peer evaluations done and meet with Chief pilots at your halfway point during your probationary period. Not joking!! You’re going to have to get 3 peer Evals from captains you’ve flown with and hand carry them to the principals office to go over your performance during the first 6 months, and determine whether you need to come in after another 3 months. I don’t even think regionals have you fill out FO evals anymore. Think very carefully about if the move to frontier is worth it.

WTF (welcome to frontier)

http://www.frontierbadbargain.com

Frontier Pilot Facts

100% READY TO STRIKE!!!

I know Envoy had them however they are not mandatory by any means.

We still do evals at oo. With the current hiring practices at the regional level, I'm not opposed to them. For us they're online and take about 30 seconds to fill out.

I think probationary evals from pilots you fly with is pretty common in the industry, even at mainline carriers.

Whether you need to monitor new hires closely depends on who you hire.

I interviewed at F9 mainly for the interview experience after a long, hard inner debate with myself about whether I should no-show or not. It cost me about $600 to prepare myself for it. All in all, I did not lose much in terms of personal resources because the suit and briefcase and electronic logbook that I bought will be utilized to be hired by companies which have much more to offer me in the long run. I did waste $250 on a hotel, transportation, and food, though. When they told me by the end of the interview that they would not hire me and they wanted to see me again in 6 months, not going to lie I was more than pleased! No one should be going to Frontier in this environment unless they are absolutely committed to living within spitting distance of its bases.

@OP, thanks for posting this information and letting us all know. We all ought to watch out for one another. So posting stuff like this helps us all make an informed decision.

Did you ask why they turned you down? At that point it would have cost you nothing to ask.

A friend of mine and I, we both interviewed a few months apart as regional FOs and they gave us the reason that we should upgrade and then reapply in 6 months. It beats me why they would want this when they regularly hire FOs from our regional and others. We noticed though that we were pretty young and had relatively clean records, while those who were hired tended to be of later age, 45 years and above.

It's probably only their way of testing to see whether we are really interested in Frontier or not. Then again, maybe we just suck at interviewing. Like I said, I went in mainly for the interview experience. A seasoned interview team will be readily able to spot the signs of an indifferent candidate.

WHY!? Endeavor is paying a LOT more to new hires in the CRJ200 (and they pay for single occupant hotel during training too) Nobody should be going to Frontier for that pay.

The new latest falsehood management is telling “EVERYONE” is that the airline will grow 40% next year. This is a blatant lie. Their numbers for recruiting are down, so the easiest way to seduce suckers is to scream “growth”. They say they need 40 a class and maybe they’ll reach their goal of 20. This is a classic management technique. They don’t care that it’s a lie. They will do ANYTHING to achieve what they need to. Then, after paying for your own hotel, you will be stuck at a bottom feeder sh*thole airline commuting to reserve for $38 an hour. Please, for your sake and the sake of your families do not fall for these ploys. We are not set up to train that many people! There is NO WAY this airline can or will grow that much next year! It is impossible!

CAVEAT EMPTOR

http://www.frontierbadbargain.com

Frontier Pilot Facts

100% READY TO STRIKE!!!

If regional guys quit applying they would probably just hire CFI’s. Most CFI’s would jump at the chance to be able to skip the regionals. Since mommy and daddy are usually paying their bills the low pay wouldn’t phase them. Most of them would be yes voters on a bad deal also.

Ok sfl, no more drinking and apc

They'd have to change their training program, I don't think it's optimized for piston ASEL pilots. But it might be coming.

I’ve been offered a phone interview, but I told the recruiter that in all honestly there’s no way I’d consider working at Frontier until after a new TA is signed. I’d take a pay cut to go from CRJ to A320. Furthermore, the absolute last thing I’d want to be is a probie during a strike. My choices would be either cross a picket line or be fired. Hell No to the first choice, not thrilled about the second.

It’s not worth the risk right now.

Their insurance premiums would skyrocket so there is no way that would happen.

And the first injury incident the whole airline folds....

How is what frontier does different than what regionals, who hire those dreaded cfis, do?

Airbus. RJ's are more straight-forward to learn.

Overseas they put low-time pilots in them, but I've heard the training programs are lengthy.

Not to sure about this. An Airbus is probably the easiest of the airplanes to learn to fly. As for overseas flying, yeah they send them here to get their commercial multi, then around 300 hours they get shipped back home to observe for 3-6 months and then bam, right seat.