You can be there on May 17 . . .


. . . or you can be part of the problem.






.

 

May 17th isn't the only solution to the problem. It's a great effort and I certainly hope it makes waves.

 

So, you hope it works, but you're not going to pitch in and help.

You don't mind letting other people carry the water for you, but you also don't mind pointing out their failings.


Gotcha.




.

 

I never said that. Capt. Prater has my support and like I said, it's a great effort and I hope to god that it makes waves. Just because I'm on the sideline cheering doesn't mean I'm a part of the problem. As I said earlier, ALPA "might" have something going this time. If somebody is making an effort to move things in the positive direction, you have my support. ALPA does have a reputation for being, well, worthless but they could prove otherwise this time around because pilots are seriously sick of this crap. All we can do see what happens. But as I stated, May 17th isn't the ONLY solution. And just because I'm not showing up for a rally 3000 miles from where I live doesn't mean I'm a part of the problem. I do think Ellen's insight is a little more realistic, though.

 

Guys,

What Ellen is saying is very true indeed! We ain't running for the white house, we are trying to create propoganda so people would listen. Shooting blank shots in the air, with a sea of uniforms might actually work, but the memory of the 21st century public is very very SHORT. Take VTech massacre of two days ago.... long forgotten inlight of the new Alec Baldwin father daughter conversation... and you think the pilot situation in america is gonna rattle someone becuz we show up on good ol' capitol dressed up in our uniforms, which most usually are dirty and look like us as a whole, a sad image of reality.

People like aggressiveness and shiny stuff. Luckily our airframes are mostly shiny, why not use that? Aggressiveness is portrayed in Ellen's original post.

As for if you're not with us you're against us.... please, we've had enough. We sound like a gathering of old 80 year old grandmas... get over it, and instead of taking every comment so personally like a bunch of wussies start applying some thoughts... maybe this guy actually came up with something none of us have thought of before.

For 2% pay of close 60,000 pilots, roughly estimated at $78,000,000 a year - I think we can afford a couple of the ideas described above. Maybe our non-volun reps should take the same pay cut they're offering our CEOs and mgmt teams to take, in help for the team's effort.

Stuff ain't gonna magically start happening becuz we're all unionized. For something to happen we can't just sit and say we all trust the union and that's what it is for..... it's time we all take the stand TOGETHER.

Get some tail winds behind each and every one of us individually and maybe, just maybe we can create a jet stream of our own that isn't based on the season we mainly fly in or the latitude from which we come from.

-schone

 

yeah, maybe like,, oh i don't know,, showing up on the 17th?? You guys dont get it. Of course there were some good times. Look at all the alpa carriers before 9/11.. Yeah that contract that delta negotiated with its alpa group really sucked,,, 340 bucks an hour after 12 years..... HA. Same with NWA, and ALMOST every alpa carrier out there. The unions did a very good job. QOL, was never an issue. Pay, never an issue. Pretty much if the union asked for it they would get it. However we were all blindsided by something none of us have ever seen before. The terrorist attacks were a new ball game. The economy was tanking, planes were flying empty, the cost to insure them the following year was almost 3 times the value of the plane itself. There was literally nothing alpa could do to stop what was about to happen. People lost their jobs, took 43% salary cuts, benifit cuts, and retirement cuts, to name a few things, all so the airlines could survive. But the airlines are doing more than just surviving. They are handing out million dollar bonuses, making millions in profits, all on the backs of the beat down worker... so if you guys are satisfied with where you are at,, then so be it. I can atleast say for my part i showed up, and did what i could. I walked with the nwa guys, i walked with the mesaba guys, i walked with pinnacle (of course), i have walked with the comair guys. We all need to be seen. If we could get the lazy pilots like ellen (aka skyhigh) to actually show up maybe we could get somewhere. But some people prefer to sit back and complain and go about their lives than actually make trying to make a difference.

 

Airsupport, I see things from both sides of the field but I think Ellen has some good points and tools that you all can use at the rally on the 17th. For one, and I know some think it's silly, but handing out "did you know" brochures to the general public is a great idea. What harm would it do? The more people you can get involved, the better. A large cooperative effort is what pilots/employees need and getting the public involved wouldn't be taking a step back, it's a step forward.

By the way, Ellen (aka skyhigh)? You lost me on that one.

 

Are you in an alpa carrier?? we did that at almost every walk i have been on. We carry our pay stubs, or have them blown up to poster size. We inform them of what our normal schedules look like, the pay cut amounts (you should see some passengers eyes when you ask them if they could afford a 43% pay cut, that really gets their attention). I am not discrediting ellens ideas. i think those are some good ideas. What i am saying is sitting back and saying "oh stupid alpa, they never get anything done, same ole b.s." will not help any of us. Taking those ideas and doing something with them is what it is all about.

if not now, when. if not you, who?

 

There are many challenges to achieving what we want, and from what I hear most of what we want are QOL, better pay and benefits, and secure future.

Yes or No? Please add if I am completely off base.

This is what the public cares about our QOL, better pay and benefits, and secure future:

NOTHING!

Why? It doesn't affect them in any way. All ALPA has been chanting since the dawn of time is all this crap about "me, me, me." Copies of pay stubs, 43% decrease in salary, yada, yada, yada. WHO CARES! (Is what I say if I am a passenger going from Point A to Point B)

How does ALPA and the plight of Airline pilots get recognized?
Just ask any Freshman PR student.

MAKE IT ABOUT THE PAYING PASSENGER. THEY HAVE MUCH GREATER NUMBERS THAN PILOTS WILL EVER HAVE.

Look at all the recent press on:

Passenger Bill of Rights!

Lost Luggage complaints,

Headlines that say "Stranded on the Tarmac for 7 hours"
or
"Bumped off My Flight AGAIN!"

If you mould the pilots wants, wishes and desires into REAL applicable Passenger Concerns, THEN you will get INSTANT PRESS about the current state of affairs. Lets just list some things for fun:

1) Did you know your pilots sleep on their planes at night because the companies they work for won't buy them a hotel room? Lack of proper sleep can cause poor decision making while flying.(MESA)

2) Airline pilots are exposed to radiation levels far exceeding the normal safe radiation limits mandated by the FDA so you can get from Point A to Point B.

3) How many of you go to work where people try to kill you? How many of you have had your office turned into a cruise missile? How many of you work behind a bullet proof door?

4) How many of you are responsible for the lives of 200- 300 people, with any small mistake in your performance resulting in the death of your customers (and yourself) A bad day! A pilot cannot have a bad day.

5) Pilots close the door of the aircraft because that is their TIME CLOCK. This is the only way they can get paid by the Airline Company. They would rather sit on the tarmac with the time clock running then sit at the gate for hours on end without being paid. Blame their actions on their employeer.(Name of Airline) Management.

6) Many regional pilots these days get hired right out of Flight School with very few hours of experience. Some are even offered jobs before graduating.

7) Would you trust a 21 year pilot right out of Flight School to get you to the ground safely in a Thunderstorm if the Captain suddenly became incapacitated?

8) Did you know that your bags get lost because the airlines do not hire enough ramp personnel to perform the job on a consistant and timely manner. And that some airlines expect the pilots to help load and unload the plane instead of safely planning their next flight?

9) Did you know that many pilots have second jobs to supplement their income? And sometimes these extra jobs lead to fatigue, physiologically causing them to fall asleep while flying.

10)Did you know that the cost of learning to fly along with depressed pilot salaries are causing a decrease in pilots starts? Because of the reduced interest in becoming a pilot, airlines are forced to hire extremely young and underskilled candidates.

11) Did you know that some airlines are hiring their pilots, ones that are responsible for your life, with as little time as 350 hours of Total Flight time? However, these airlines won't admit it. 350 hours? This is less time than the average teenager has behind the wheel before getting their drivers permit. Airlines do this because they are not willing to pay the more experienced pilot a respectable salary.

12) Did you know that if every pilot quit today it would take well over 20 years to train enough pilots (based on current pilot starts and ratings earned) to reach today's air travel needs. Imagine having to drive or take the bus on your next cross country trip or not being able to go to Europe on vacation for at least a decade.

13) Did you know some pilots are threatened with losing their jobs by their Airline if they choose not to fly a mechanically deficient airplane? Imagine being forced to fly a broken airplane without you the passenger ever knowing.

ALPA would do itself justice in hiring a PROFESSIONAL PR Firm to discover how they can accomplish what is needed to make the PUBLIC and the GOVERNMENT take notice. A well targeted and executed campaign could IMMEDIATELY force change among the industry. Imagine 100 million US citizens demanding change in the industry vs. the less than 100,000 voices of pilots.

Just a thought.

 

I will by laying over in GSP on the 17th.... Otherwise I would go. I am based in DCA and it would be very easy for me to be there and I would go for sure. Does it mean much? No. But it means at least putting forth a bit of effort to support what I believe in.

I am continually telling anyone who will listen that I (and all other pilots of so-called 'regional' aircraft) are grossly underpaid and that I grossed less than $40K last year. Their first response is, "you mean $140K, right?"

Tell people the truth without whining. We love our jobs. We just don't like the assumptions of the flying public, the greed and ineptitude of upper and middle management, the fact that our responsibilities have not changed but our pay has been slashed, etc.

Stand up for what you believe in folks. If you are able, attending a demonstration like this is not a bad thing. I am not a huge ALPA crusader, but the public is largely unaware that most of us are working more than 8 days per month, do not earn $300K, are not paid when not actually operating the A/C, are not paid for commuting, pay our own crashpads/hotels when commuting, etc.

PS - Ellen is right. The traditional methods of informing the public - whining about our miserable lives - will get us nowhere. We need to think like the flying public and put it in their terms.