Nobody has mentioned the fact that Union leadership comes from the pilot ranks. If, as a whole, we were a relatively undereducated group with just technical training, how would we fare during negotiations with the corporate brains from management?


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I dunno. Ask Envoy and Piedmont.

Is this sarcasm? I can’t tell.

The elitism out of this guy. Wow.

Pretty sure all of the negotiations classes at Universities are aimed at management, or part of a law school curriculum. Not only that, like most college courses, they are probably taught by people who have absolutely zero experience in the field.

He may have a point. The pilot unions have fared far better than the blue collar unions over the last 50 years.

"Elitism" often translates to "he's successful and I'm envious".

Union leadership should absolutely have an education in management. Know thy enemy.

With respect to the loans and their ability to be discharged in bankruptcy. Those that are subsidized by the federal government are with you for life. The government pays them if you don't. They then attempt to collect from you. As far as I know these loans are only given to college and university students for credited classes. One of the other points on this is the issue of getting a federal loan for flight training at an aviation college or university. I know that at ERAU they at least used to list the flight courses as credited classes to facilitate the obtaining of the federal loans. I believe that ended when they went off of a fixed price model. I'm not sure how it would work with variable hourly flight training costs. I don't have experience with the other collage flying programs, but others can comment on details.

Have had the pleasure of mentoring a young Amish man from Indiana who decided he wanted to be a pilot. He was educated to the eighth grade level, customary in Amish order and became a carpenter. As he obtained his ratings, we were under the assumption he needed a HS diploma or GED for the ATP. He did study hard and obtained a GED.
He is a very hard worker, super contentious and polite. The next step was to get to an AA wholly owned, to get the flow as we were not sure how long it would take to get the college degree. He has decided to get that degree. He is presently at one of the wholly owned, PSA, progressing very well. He recently told me his mother apologized for taking him out of school, as she realized it was a huge obstacle for him to later overcome. But it was simply how life was conducted in his order of religion.
So, obstacles can be overcome if one puts time and effort in.

That's an excellent story. Good for him.