Tipping Van Drivers
01-16-2020, 03:25 PM
#41
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2015
Posts: 2,427
Originally Posted by Baradium
At my former airline, probably 3/4 of the captains I flew with didn't tip. They would either shove themselves past the driver to move their bag or make an excuse about "I'll make up for it next time" even though the driver had seen them three times already that month. They also wondered why the van drivers were rarely if ever sitting there waiting for us or otherwise prompt to pick us up.
For those of you who say "if I happen to have cash" you should be ashamed of yourselves. If you don't care to tip, then don't... but don't make some excuse about how you don't have cash when you intentionally make sure not to.
For the rest of you looking for excuses, tips are expected and the drivers notice when certain airlines crews don't tip. When I started at my current airline on day one of indoc they made a point of saying that tipping van drivers is not considered optional and that if we want to say we are making some broader societal point about tipping to do it on our own time, not while representing the company, and more importantly when it isn't affecting how they look at our crews.
The only reason I carried cash when flying RJs was hotel van tips and I still do for the same reason. Yes the drivers notice when you don't tip, and if they see a pattern from a company yes it affects what kind of service you get. In the old days the van drivers were in many cases making more than RJ pilots (although that wasn't their fault), now they are almost assuredly making less than you.
The thing is, people like you who don't tip affect everyone else... although the people who don't tip aren't likely to care about that.
Tips for things like your van driver are expected to be part of your per diem, which is why it is not taxed. So no, it's not something you don't get reimbursed for, you just get the money whether you tip or not.
You are all going to do your own thing anyway, but don't fool yourselves into thinking that anyone else sees you as anything other than cheap and stingy. Regardless of what broader points you think you are making that is how both the drivers and your fellow crew members see you.
For those of you who say "if I happen to have cash" you should be ashamed of yourselves. If you don't care to tip, then don't... but don't make some excuse about how you don't have cash when you intentionally make sure not to.
For the rest of you looking for excuses, tips are expected and the drivers notice when certain airlines crews don't tip. When I started at my current airline on day one of indoc they made a point of saying that tipping van drivers is not considered optional and that if we want to say we are making some broader societal point about tipping to do it on our own time, not while representing the company, and more importantly when it isn't affecting how they look at our crews.
The only reason I carried cash when flying RJs was hotel van tips and I still do for the same reason. Yes the drivers notice when you don't tip, and if they see a pattern from a company yes it affects what kind of service you get. In the old days the van drivers were in many cases making more than RJ pilots (although that wasn't their fault), now they are almost assuredly making less than you.
The thing is, people like you who don't tip affect everyone else... although the people who don't tip aren't likely to care about that.
Tips for things like your van driver are expected to be part of your per diem, which is why it is not taxed. So no, it's not something you don't get reimbursed for, you just get the money whether you tip or not.
You are all going to do your own thing anyway, but don't fool yourselves into thinking that anyone else sees you as anything other than cheap and stingy. Regardless of what broader points you think you are making that is how both the drivers and your fellow crew members see you.
01-16-2020, 04:27 PM
#42
All is fine at .79
Joined APC: Sep 2016
Position: Paahlot
Posts: 4,089
Originally Posted by Flyinguy
This^^
Where do you draw the line? Google hotel maids, they ‘should’ be tipped $1-5$ per night. Do y’all tip them?
Tipping is a terrible American social ‘norm’ for the restaurant industry who is too cheap to pay their employees properly and expect the customer to pay them. Let’s not let it spread to everything.
It hurts them way more than it helps them. They don’t have as much stability as an hourly wage employee. But you chose to go out to eat, you could order delivery, so as terrible as it is, I do tip wait staff when I go out.
But this is part of our job. Do we tip gate agents for being on time? Bag handelers don’t get $1 for every bag they handle, pilots don’t get $1 for every passenger.
It is an insult to tip in most countries. We are professionals who do our best, we don’t need a bribe/tip to do well.
It leads to scum in various other cities, where some guy jumps on your car and starts cleaning the window and expects money for it and he breaks your window.
Exactly. I treat the van driver like I would want to be treated. I thank them, tell them to have a good day. I let them load bags because they have a method, but I will gladly load or unload my own bag, in fact prefer it.
I assume most won’t turn down a tip, but don’t expect one either. I don’t think it ruins their day or they care if they get a tip.
Where do you draw the line? Google hotel maids, they ‘should’ be tipped $1-5$ per night. Do y’all tip them?
Tipping is a terrible American social ‘norm’ for the restaurant industry who is too cheap to pay their employees properly and expect the customer to pay them. Let’s not let it spread to everything.
It hurts them way more than it helps them. They don’t have as much stability as an hourly wage employee. But you chose to go out to eat, you could order delivery, so as terrible as it is, I do tip wait staff when I go out.
But this is part of our job. Do we tip gate agents for being on time? Bag handelers don’t get $1 for every bag they handle, pilots don’t get $1 for every passenger.
It is an insult to tip in most countries. We are professionals who do our best, we don’t need a bribe/tip to do well.
It leads to scum in various other cities, where some guy jumps on your car and starts cleaning the window and expects money for it and he breaks your window.
Exactly. I treat the van driver like I would want to be treated. I thank them, tell them to have a good day. I let them load bags because they have a method, but I will gladly load or unload my own bag, in fact prefer it.
I assume most won’t turn down a tip, but don’t expect one either. I don’t think it ruins their day or they care if they get a tip.
Great post.
01-16-2020, 07:12 PM
#43
New Hire
Joined APC: Dec 2019
Posts: 6
I usually don't tip since they're not going above and beyond and get paid more than minimum wage. Tipped couple of times where they did outstanding service (usually $10), such as making sure when it rains i dont get wet and bring the bags in an orderly fashion. Other than that I do not see a reason to tip and I save the cash for the bars and restaurants where the server treats you real nice.
01-17-2020, 05:23 AM
#44
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2019
Posts: 28
It’s a ridiculous Americanism. Not the worst societal norm out there, but ridiculous, nonetheless.
I do enjoy the posters who infer that the drivers may threaten action in terms of providing poor service and/or punctuality. Please. What services can they withhold? Also, if they are late, not my problem. We have an organised pickup time. If their lateness is a factor which contributes to a delayed departure, then there’s a code for that in our admin report.
Anecdotally, as someone who flies long haul to Europe, NA, Aus/NZ ect three times a month, I can safely say that the ground transport product we receive in the US is the worst by a country mile. Clapped out prison-van busses with rattling windows, busted shocks, late arrivals and surly drivers all being fairly SOP.
I’m happy to tip the hotel van if they take us out to dinner or some such favour, and I tip restaurant workers well (despite not necessarily agreeing with the principle), but contracted van drivers to enable us to do our jobs?
In the lobby, most of the time a crew member has an envelope for drivers tips. If I have loose change, I’ll offload it in there. I’d far rather leave any extra $1 bills to the hotel wait-staff.
I fly with a crew of 16 most of the time. It’s a ridiculous notion that the driver should be tipped $16.
My job is to fly the plane. Their job is to drive the van.
I do enjoy the posters who infer that the drivers may threaten action in terms of providing poor service and/or punctuality. Please. What services can they withhold? Also, if they are late, not my problem. We have an organised pickup time. If their lateness is a factor which contributes to a delayed departure, then there’s a code for that in our admin report.
Anecdotally, as someone who flies long haul to Europe, NA, Aus/NZ ect three times a month, I can safely say that the ground transport product we receive in the US is the worst by a country mile. Clapped out prison-van busses with rattling windows, busted shocks, late arrivals and surly drivers all being fairly SOP.
I’m happy to tip the hotel van if they take us out to dinner or some such favour, and I tip restaurant workers well (despite not necessarily agreeing with the principle), but contracted van drivers to enable us to do our jobs?
In the lobby, most of the time a crew member has an envelope for drivers tips. If I have loose change, I’ll offload it in there. I’d far rather leave any extra $1 bills to the hotel wait-staff.
I fly with a crew of 16 most of the time. It’s a ridiculous notion that the driver should be tipped $16.
My job is to fly the plane. Their job is to drive the van.
01-17-2020, 06:39 AM
#45
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Posts: 741
general thoughts.
I am still tipping the same now as I was in 1981. One dollar.
So I either over tipped then or am undertipping now.
My second airline paid the Captain an extra 4 dollars per RON that was specifically negotiated for the van tips...$2.00 per/ride. There were 4 or 5 crewmembers, depending on which aircraft. Some of us added a buck on top of it.
Not tipping if the van is late isn't exactly fair, as it often is completely out of the drivers control.
Personal opinion: unless the driver does or acts in an exceptionally negative way, I still always tip because most depend on those few bucks above their minimum wage to just get by....
I agree that all employers SHOULD pay their employees a living wage so that we wouldn't feel compelled to tip. However, most employers don't.
The few dollars per month I spend on driver tips has a minimal impact on me. It will not prevent me from paying my bills or being able to retire. If we all stopped tipping those who have come to expect it, it definitely would (does) have an impact on their being able to pay their bills. As for retirement, they probably only can if they win the lottery.
Having enough "ones" on my person is part of my prep for a trip. Plus I keep an extra 20 or 30 in my roller bag.
I have added a $2.00 per night tip for the maids. They probably make minimum wage, often work split shifts, and are often disrespected by those who they clean the rooms for. A clean room is just as important to me as a safe van ride. ( I added this as there have been a few comments about tipping maids as well)
For what it's worth. Just my personal views on tipping hotel staff.
I am still tipping the same now as I was in 1981. One dollar.
So I either over tipped then or am undertipping now.
My second airline paid the Captain an extra 4 dollars per RON that was specifically negotiated for the van tips...$2.00 per/ride. There were 4 or 5 crewmembers, depending on which aircraft. Some of us added a buck on top of it.
Not tipping if the van is late isn't exactly fair, as it often is completely out of the drivers control.
Personal opinion: unless the driver does or acts in an exceptionally negative way, I still always tip because most depend on those few bucks above their minimum wage to just get by....
I agree that all employers SHOULD pay their employees a living wage so that we wouldn't feel compelled to tip. However, most employers don't.
The few dollars per month I spend on driver tips has a minimal impact on me. It will not prevent me from paying my bills or being able to retire. If we all stopped tipping those who have come to expect it, it definitely would (does) have an impact on their being able to pay their bills. As for retirement, they probably only can if they win the lottery.
Having enough "ones" on my person is part of my prep for a trip. Plus I keep an extra 20 or 30 in my roller bag.
I have added a $2.00 per night tip for the maids. They probably make minimum wage, often work split shifts, and are often disrespected by those who they clean the rooms for. A clean room is just as important to me as a safe van ride. ( I added this as there have been a few comments about tipping maids as well)
For what it's worth. Just my personal views on tipping hotel staff.
01-17-2020, 06:47 AM
#46
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,293
Originally Posted by ScarebusPusher
My job is to fly the plane. Their job is to drive the van.
01-17-2020, 06:53 AM
#47
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,293
Originally Posted by backtoregionals
no, you don’t call fatigued unless there is a true fatigue issue, not because “you don’t like the hotel”.
01-17-2020, 07:10 AM
#48
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 3,659
I mean the average shuttle driver earns an average of $14.06 an hour. Not exactly minimum wage. I think we have moved beyond the days of everyone making below minimum wage and needing to be tipped. I have a family member that is a server and even she gets paid 10.50 an hour in addition to her tips. I am not saying this is great money but we are talking about jobs that have zero requirements to start working at them.
hopefully we move past this.
hopefully we move past this.
01-17-2020, 07:10 AM
#49
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2019
Posts: 28
Originally Posted by rickair7777
As I said before, I don't tip them for driving, they have to handle my bag. That's what they traditionally get tipped for (same as bellhops).
01-17-2020, 08:29 AM
#50
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2019
Posts: 344
Originally Posted by ScarebusPusher
It’s a ridiculous Americanism. Not the worst societal norm out there, but ridiculous, nonetheless.
I do enjoy the posters who infer that the drivers may threaten action in terms of providing poor service and/or punctuality. Please. What services can they withhold? Also, if they are late, not my problem. We have an organised pickup time.
I do enjoy the posters who infer that the drivers may threaten action in terms of providing poor service and/or punctuality. Please. What services can they withhold? Also, if they are late, not my problem. We have an organised pickup time.
