Aircrafts owned by regionals
02-28-2020 | 10:53 AM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 2,928
Likes: 97
You’re seeing this because this is currently the industry trend so you assume the last two years is how it will always be. It’s all you know. After seeing this industry for 30 years I’ve seen advantages to both and phases with both. I’ve seen those holding airplanes, such as ACA, not being able to shop them and going under after a short stint of trying to go as an independent.
Regionals don’t just print money to buy airplanes. They have to finance it. They have to find investors willing to purchase those airplanes and finance them. If people feel they can get a greater return on their $ than airplanes they will take the money elsewhere. The cost of operating then goes up. For smaller airlines such as regionals this may be too much to handle.
Legacies now are able to still play regionals off against each other. Look at the AAG WOs. They haven’t combined them and they probably won’t. They will play them off against each other and against the independents. They will never combine them and permit another Comair. Scope will limit the number of aircraft that can be put on line.
Eventually, we will probably get down to each legacy having one or more WO and probably 3 large independent regionals. They will continue to be played against each other. Some will see airplanes fielded, some will see them taken away. But it will be a shell game.
Regionals don’t just print money to buy airplanes. They have to finance it. They have to find investors willing to purchase those airplanes and finance them. If people feel they can get a greater return on their $ than airplanes they will take the money elsewhere. The cost of operating then goes up. For smaller airlines such as regionals this may be too much to handle.
Legacies now are able to still play regionals off against each other. Look at the AAG WOs. They haven’t combined them and they probably won’t. They will play them off against each other and against the independents. They will never combine them and permit another Comair. Scope will limit the number of aircraft that can be put on line.
Eventually, we will probably get down to each legacy having one or more WO and probably 3 large independent regionals. They will continue to be played against each other. Some will see airplanes fielded, some will see them taken away. But it will be a shell game.
Yes I understand how mainline carriers play the regionals off of each other. This about how mainline carriers playing off one of each other. I do understand how and why fleets financed and why. I still stand by my statement that’s to the advantage of a regional carrier owning their own airplanes.
You bring up ACA. ACA was a case of United pulling the plug on their contract failing to reach cost savings then ACA foolishness to start a LCC with a high CASM fleet of CRJ-200s then immediately going toe to toe with United in their backyard...
I raise you with Skywest who themselves have successfully evolved as their customer needs has changed over the years. You can see how they went from being a turboprop airline to operating and owning fleets of CRJs and E175s.
Air Wisconsin was keyword “was” another carrier who have evolved until they reach a point where now the owners are trying to make every last cent off of clapped out CR2s but paid off CR2s. They lucked with a contract flying with United. A contract I don’t believe they would have gotten if they didn’t own their planes.
WOs don’t have this advantage as AAL owns the planes, but they have the financial backing of AAL. This leaves them WOs in a similar position as Comair if the WOs get too far out line. Hence is why we have separate carriers.
I do agree with your last point, I see this regional industry itself transition in phase where There will WOs of each major carrier plus a few of the larger independent carriers. Whichever independent carrier fails to evolve with their customers needs, look for them to head a down a similar path as Air Wisconsin years from now.
02-28-2020 | 11:54 AM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,888
Likes: 0
Stop it with the that’s all I’ve seen for the last 2-years. You have no idea what I’ve seen and witness in regards to how this industry has evolved.
Yes I understand how mainline carriers play the regionals off of each other. This about how mainline carriers playing off one of each other. I do understand how and why fleets financed and why. I still stand by my statement that’s to the advantage of a regional carrier owning their own airplanes.
You bring up ACA. ACA was a case of United pulling the plug on their contract failing to reach cost savings then ACA foolishness to start a LCC with a high CASM fleet of CRJ-200s then immediately going toe to toe with United in their backyard...
I raise you with Skywest who themselves have successfully evolved as their customer needs has changed over the years. You can see how they went from being a turboprop airline to operating and owning fleets of CRJs and E175s.
Air Wisconsin was keyword “was” another carrier who have evolved until they reach a point where now the owners are trying to make every last cent off of clapped out CR2s but paid off CR2s. They lucked with a contract flying with United. A contract I don’t believe they would have gotten if they didn’t own their planes.
WOs don’t have this advantage as AAL owns the planes, but they have the financial backing of AAL. This leaves them WOs in a similar position as Comair if the WOs get too far out line. Hence is why we have separate carriers.
I do agree with your last point, I see this regional industry itself transition in phase where There will WOs of each major carrier plus a few of the larger independent carriers. Whichever independent carrier fails to evolve with their customers needs, look for them to head a down a similar path as Air Wisconsin years from now.
Yes I understand how mainline carriers play the regionals off of each other. This about how mainline carriers playing off one of each other. I do understand how and why fleets financed and why. I still stand by my statement that’s to the advantage of a regional carrier owning their own airplanes.
You bring up ACA. ACA was a case of United pulling the plug on their contract failing to reach cost savings then ACA foolishness to start a LCC with a high CASM fleet of CRJ-200s then immediately going toe to toe with United in their backyard...
I raise you with Skywest who themselves have successfully evolved as their customer needs has changed over the years. You can see how they went from being a turboprop airline to operating and owning fleets of CRJs and E175s.
Air Wisconsin was keyword “was” another carrier who have evolved until they reach a point where now the owners are trying to make every last cent off of clapped out CR2s but paid off CR2s. They lucked with a contract flying with United. A contract I don’t believe they would have gotten if they didn’t own their planes.
WOs don’t have this advantage as AAL owns the planes, but they have the financial backing of AAL. This leaves them WOs in a similar position as Comair if the WOs get too far out line. Hence is why we have separate carriers.
I do agree with your last point, I see this regional industry itself transition in phase where There will WOs of each major carrier plus a few of the larger independent carriers. Whichever independent carrier fails to evolve with their customers needs, look for them to head a down a similar path as Air Wisconsin years from now.
ACA had no choice but to try it on their own. No place else to put their airframes after UAL fired them.
TSA. Used to own their airframes when they flew TWA Express. Not sure when all that changed but then they didn’t.
TSA management formed GoJet to get around the 70 seat pay issue. GoJet owns theirs... and came close to being shut down as they couldn’t farm out the -700’s as everyone was scopes out. Until someone figured out you could turn a -700 into a -550.
Comair owned their airplanes... they got purchased by Delta... and the strike... 9/11... they were gone.
ASA owned all their airframes. Purchased by Delta. Sold to SkyWest. ASA was a separate company and still owned the airframes... until an idiot MEC chairman gave them away.
Republic owns theirs and came close to shutting down a few years ago. Finagled a chapter 11 to get out of -145 leases and hasn’t looked back.
The industry changes. Owning the airframes can mean something... then it won’t. Or maybe it still will. Looking around now I wouldn’t make that a factor in my job search. I might pick a regional that owns their airframes but for reasons not associated with that fact.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
phoenix23684
Flight Schools and Training
16
02-05-2007 09:17 AM
