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-   -   Who cares about 900s - Age 60 is toast (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/regional/13015-who-cares-about-900s-age-60-toast.html)

BoilerUP 05-24-2007 10:11 AM

Who cares about 900s - Age 60 is toast
 
Folks, your career is about to take a detour so folks that benefited their whole careers from seniority advancement because of Age 60 can make up for their financial mismanagement.

They get another 5 years - at our expense.

This ain't good.

trevtt600 05-24-2007 10:32 AM

Was the law passed or what?

Mesabah 05-24-2007 10:53 AM

ALPA changed its view today and is pushing to raise the age to 65 now.

N2rotation 05-24-2007 11:38 AM

ALPA Sets New Course on Age 60

The ALPA Executive Board today voted by an overwhelming 80 percent margin to end the union’s longstanding support for the FAA Age 60 mandatory retirement age for airline pilots. In the face of concerted efforts to change the rule in Congress and the FAA, the ALPA Executive Board directed that union resources be committed to protecting pilot interests by exerting ALPA's influence in any rule change.
“The Executive Board spoke clearly this afternoon,” said ALPA's president, Capt. John Prater. “ALPA pilots will be fully engaged in shaping any rule change. Any legislative or regulatory change needs to address ALPA’s priorities in the areas of safety, medical standards, benefit issues, no retroactive application of change, liability protection, and appropriate rule implementation.”
ALPA will now turn its attention to working to advocate the following priorities contained in the resolution:
  • Appropriate legislative language to prevent retroactive application of a change to the Age 60 Rule, to the effect that: “No person over 60, except active flight deck crewmembers, on the effective date may serve as a pilot (captain or first officer) for a Part 121 airline unless such person is newly hired as a pilot on or after such effective date without credit for prior seniority or prior longevity for benefits or other terms related to length of service prior to the date of rehire under any labor agreement or employment policies of the air carrier.”
  • Appropriate legislative language to ensure stronger liability protection for airlines and pilot unions in implementing a change to the rule, to the effect that: “Any action in conformance with this Act or with a regulation under this Act may not serve as a basis for liability or relief before any court or agency of the United States, or of any state or locality, nor may any action taken prior to the effective date of enactment on the basis of section 121.383(c) of title 14, Code of Federal Regulations as then in effect.”
  • Ensuring that, under a defined benefit retirement plan, a change to the Age 60 Rule will not reduce a participant’s or beneficiary’s accrued benefit nor reduce a benefit to which a participant or beneficiary would have been entitled without enactment of such a change to the Rule.
  • Opposing any additional age-related diagnostic medical testing.
  • Opposing any attempt by the FAA to obtain greater access to pilot medical records.
  • Supporting FAA Air Surgeon Tilton’s recommendation to require a 1st Class Medical certification every six months for pilots over age 60.
  • Opposing for domestic operation the implementation of the ICAO standard that at least one pilot in the cockpit be under age 60. Once sufficient data on pilots over age 60 becomes available, unless the necessity for this mitigation for the long term is clearly shown, advocate for removal of the ICAO over/under mitigation for all operations.
  • Support the ability of a pilot to retire prior to the mandatory age without penalty.
The Board charged that ALPA continue to aggressively lobby for the adoption of the Akaka bill (which would provide full PBGC benefits to pilots who retire at age 60).
The Road to Action
The ground began shifting on the Age 60 rule when FAA Administrator Marion Blakey announced in January 2007 that “the FAA will propose a new rule to allow pilots to fly until they are 65”, and that “(t)he rule we intend to propose will parallel the ICAO standard – either pilot or copilot may fly up to age 65 as long as the other crewmember is under 60.”
In response to the FAA Administrator’s announcement, Prater established the ALPA Age 60 Blue Ribbon Panel “to study the long-range effects of potential changes to the FAA Age 60 Rule and to identify issues connected to possible changes to pilot mandatory retirement age.”
The Panel presented its findings in the areas of aviation safety; collective bargaining; the cost and structure of heath care, disability, and retirement benefits; pilot training; medical standards; and scheduling rules to the Executive Council at its April 2007 meeting.
Concurrent to this internal ALPA work, legislative efforts in Congress to change the pilot mandatory retirement age accelerated, including the introduction of S.65 and H.R.1125 – “The Freedom to Fly Act.” The Panel concluded that the provisions in these bills do not sufficiently address ALPA’s issues with respect to a change in the mandatory retirement age.
In response to this conclusion, the Council recommended to the Executive Board that ALPA modify its policy to enable ALPA to influence legislation and regulatory efforts. This became more critical as legislative efforts to change the rule accelerated.
In its deliberations, the Board took into account the high likelihood of rule change through either the legislative or the regulatory process, as well as survey data from ALPA members overwhelmingly affirming that if the rule is going to change, ALPA needs to influence that change. ALPA will now develop a comprehensive legislative plan to do just that.


-From ALPA FastRead Email 5/24

ToiletDuck 05-24-2007 11:43 AM

I have to admit I'm glad. Personally I don't think anyone should be limited by age. If you fail a physical then that's it, however, if you pass then you're good to go.

Yes this doesn't help me much in the short run. Yes it does help me in the long run. When we're all 60 we'll be glad we get to keep going.

N2rotation 05-24-2007 11:51 AM


Originally Posted by ToiletDuck (Post 170375)
I have to admit I'm glad. Personally I don't think anyone should be limited by age. If you fail a physical then that's it, however, if you pass then you're good to go.

Yes this doesn't help me much in the short run. Yes it does help me in the long run. When we're all 60 we'll be glad we get to keep going.

Tough to forecast your views on work and flying 35+ years from now. Your views will change.

AV8ER 05-24-2007 11:52 AM

How do you know you'll be glad to keep going when 60 hits. I imagine after doing it for almost 40 years, I'll be glad to sit on my rocking chair on my big ole' yacht...(hmmm...)

AV8ER 05-24-2007 11:52 AM


Originally Posted by N2rotation (Post 170381)
Tough to forecast your views on work and flying 35+ years from now. Your views will change.

Sorry didn't mean to repeat your thought. I was typing the same thing as you were posting your thought.

BoilerUP 05-24-2007 12:05 PM


Originally Posted by ToiletDuck (Post 170375)
Yes it does help me in the long run. When we're all 60 we'll be glad we get to keep going.

No, it doesn't.

If your career progression to a high-paying job (like major airline captain) is delayed 5 years, time/value of money dictates that you'll NEVER make up the wealth you lost during that delay, even with 5 more years at your top earning potential.

After this finally becomes law, your upgrade at RAH (and all of ours at our respective companies) is likely to stagnate as attrition at the legacies (the primary reason for recalls and hiring) and growth at the regionals all but stops. Current regional CAs will have much fewer options for progression and the competition for those few available jobs will be fierce. Sure along the way folks will retire early, quit aviation, medical out, pass away, etc...but attrition at the bottom will crawl following the attrition at the top. In the meantime, folks will be flying 50/70/90 seat RJs from the right seat for 1,2,3,4, maybe 5 additional years at (self-induced) slave wages gaining a whole lot of no PIC time. Hope folks are happy where they are now and that this is considered during the current round of negotiations...the idea of "get my 1000 TPIC and get the hell out" is gonna go *poof*.

This will cause me (and you) to lose career earnings, just so older pilots can increase theirs. Is that "fair"?

Paok 05-24-2007 12:07 PM

So I will be an airline pilot for 44 years........wow


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