I think it's too soon for that. I don't believe Kirby has given up on scope relief. Once he finally capitulates (or TI does, but that isn't my bet) then you will see the plan for UAX. Revenue share for EAS sounds right. Not sure about anything else.

agreed. No way he’s laying out any plans for 2+ months from now with things as fluid as they still are.

At this point any scope relief or even status quo grace would include United pilots.

So both 145 operators are wanting to send every last employee a WARN notice. Seems like they are preparing for an outcome far worse than other regionals. Am I wrong?

Correct. Perhaps a grand bargain is possible that maintains competitiveness and protects United jobs. I can’t see how though.

Hard to read anything good in it. Too bad, the XR is more capable and more comfortable than the 200. Seems like a good choice in a low demand environment but other factors are at play.

[QUOTE=tallpilot;3096785]Correct. Perhaps a grand bargain is possible that maintains competitiveness and protects United jobs. I can’t see how though.



Hard to read anything good in it. Too bad, the XR is more capable and more comfortable than the 200. Seems like a good choice in a low demand environment but other factors are at play.[/QUOTE
More capable from a Perfomance standpoint yes .More comfortable? I don’t know
they both suck , cockpit and cabin . I’ve flown both .

[QUOTE=idlethrust;3097021]They do, compared to the 170 and other 'real cabin' small jets, but not compared to the DHC-8s and Saab 340s they replaced. The stretch CRJs are pretty uncomfortable as well. But if we're talking about 50 seaters I'll take the 145 over the 200 any day, for cabin comfort, performance and the avionics.

[QUOTE=tallpilot;3097057]
I actually don’t mind the 145 as a passenger. That could be because I fly it, but there’s plenty of leg room in A and B, C is a little crammed but a window seat.

[QUOTE=tallpilot;3097057]I’m admittedly biased but the RIDE on the 170s is horrific. Light chop to a CRJ is moderate turbulence in a 170. I don’t know if it’s the stiff wing or if it’s the short length but it’s hard and fishtails in the bumps. Cabin design though is open and spacious. The newer crj interior with lowered floor and bigger bins is nice though. Ride wise I like the crj over the e170. The crj wing pop gets disconcerting sometimes though.

XJT certificate still has 175 on it, work a seniority solution or shutter operations preserve the certificate. Displace United pilots to Moxy former XJT certificate, move United owned175s over to it, by cutting a deal with Mesa to operate the Gojet 550s, and furture ones tail for tail.

United ALPA needs to get involved XJT is the most viable option for their furloughs with 175 approval. XJT pilots need to consider what type of seniority bath is acceptable for a possible furloughed United seniority number, vs total cease of operations.

WHY? There’s zero benefit to united as a company to do this. The pilots at UA - great benefit. But as far as expense there’s no beating the regionals yet. No staffing issues now either. No bonus not problem.

By creating better utilization of the 70-76 seat fleet UA can use the block hours the 50 seaters were flying to move more pax without any sort of scope relief. Mesa has some very talented people in scheduling. They can take crap pairings and create highly efficient airframe use. I’m sure others can as well. Some 50 seat filler will remain.

XJET and atleast one other carrier will cease operations Oct 1.
It’s just reality . Unfortunate , but reality.

[QUOTE=pangolin;3097112]Best way I’ve heard it put is in turbulence the crj vibrates vertically like driving down a gravel road. The ejet on the other hand fishtails back and forth, rather violently might I add. The cabin is nicer on the ejet no doubt about it, but the ride quality on that bird is absolutely brutal.

You clearly haven’t flown it for very long. There IS no B.....C is an aisle seat, and D is a window.

The only value Mesa has ever brought to any company is downward pressure on labor cost.

United Alpa, or any good union always has or creates negotiating capital, they only need to decide what is quid pro quo, and what is a concession, and what is a collective gain.

That’s his point. United pilots get a jets for jobs type arrangement to throw the furloughs a bone. The trick is finding the leverage to give management something they want without slowing the FFD model elimination plan too much. The alternative is about three thousand United furloughs and nearly 2000 UAX furloughs into a no job environment.

Maybe just holding the line and destroying UAX next April makes the whole paradigm better in a decade but it’s a long time to wait for many of us and the lack of competitiveness hampers United compared to Delta and American.

It is a sticky problem and Mesa being dirt cheap makes no difference if scope block hour limits result in half their fleet being parked.

I should have been a firefighter. I’d be retiring this year.

Word on the street is UA is only saving one 145 flyer. Between XJET and CommutAir, its said to be CommutAir. Cheaper workforce, less overall employees/facilities/leases, and less debt.

Its also said this is just a band-aid solution to comply with scope as more 550s are brought online. SK still adamant on getting rid of all 145s long term.

I wish all XJET guys best of luck and hope y’all land on your feet some where

[QUOTE=point80;3097425]its said to be CommutAir.
/QUOTE]

where does it say that?

Also...by word on the street do you mean, word on the APC forum?

email sent out by XJT MEC.

It's coming from XJT. They're asking for concessions to be more competitive with C5s labor cost

I get the higher cost due to the Jurassic seniority list. Debt though? These are cash only companies. They have no assets and basically own nothing.

Once concessions start at one Alpa cattier everyone else will be asked to follow suit .

Hell no
BURN IT DOWN BEFORE YOU GIVE UP ONE EFFING DIME .
We made strategic gains in compensation over the last few years and now they want you to take it all back and start over ?? F’ em .

The AA 145s are A aisle BC, there is no D.

I see a lot of bashing Kirby all over the place for the regional "whipsaw". But honestly, what does a expect? They are laying of tons of workers, cutting costs everywhere. Of course they are putting pressure on regionals to be cheap or lose business. Whether or not he's personally bad, what would you expect him to do?

my mistake.....I’m baffled by people who post about AA stuff in UAX threads without verbalizing it. This forum should make the carrier next to people’s avatar. Waaaaay more useful than “gets weekends off”. 🙄

Somebody gets it

The term you're looking for to describe this is "recapture scope."

If UA pilots had done this and accepted a dogdoo payrate to get the 175 and 145/200/700/900 on property years ago, the kids who've been airline pilots for 6 months and are still living in their parent's basement would be getting furloughed instead of the 35-45 y/o folks who put in 10-20 years at the regionals only to get scooped up last year and now getting furloughed when they finally made it. But UALPA MEC has managed to convince UA pilots that it's better to make $0/hr on furlough when a SkyWest 175 captain is making $120/hr flying DEN-DFW. Well done chaps.

sadly, this is a very accurate post.

Sounds like you’ve never ran a company or actually read the financial statements of one. Every company, even one like Apple with $2 billion in the bank carries debt. Even though Mana and UA own xjt, xjt is its own operating company. So when UA/Mana need parts, building leases, facuilities, etc. They take it out against the subsidiary. That way if bankruptcy does happen they can cut there losses and not have to pay back the entire debt. I suggest you read the quarterly financials between both companies. Based on sheer size of xjt over CommutAir I would assume that there debt is greater. Im not wishing they lose their job, but so many people are delusional of whats about to happen. Covid-19 dwarfs 9/11 and 2008.

Think of it like cutting off an infected arm (xjet) to save the body (UA)

This.

Also, when UA bought xjet from SkyWest, they also assumed some of SkyWest's debt in the transaction.

[QUOTE=pangolin;3097112]I’ve been flying the 170 for the better part of the decade and have NEVER seen it fishtail in turbulence. Ever.

It is much less perceptible in the front. All wing mounted engine aircraft will 'fishtail' in turbulence compared to those with aft mounted engines because of thrust vectors. Pangolin was a bit hyperbolic in his statement but the high wing loading of the 170 and even more so the 190 does contribute to a less compliant ride. The 321 has the same issue.

i thought high wing load was good?
maybe I’m wrong. Slept through aerodynamics

Ever ride in the back of a 757-300? Lol


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[QUOTE=amberdash;3099179]Sit in the back sometime.

No, you are correct. A higher wing loading rides turbulence better, generally speaking.

Looks like a swimmer, flies like a swimmer

No idea exactly why, but in the back the ejet truly has an awful ride in turbulence.

Who cares? It’s more comfortable up front!