The problem with inexperienced, young pilots

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05-28-2007, 06:37 PM

#11

groovinaviator

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Joined APC: Oct 2006

Position: CL65 Captain

Posts: 484

Low time FO"s here in the US are nothing new... when are all the accidents you keep talking about going to begin happening?

05-28-2007, 06:57 PM

#12

JoeyMeatballs

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Joined APC: Jan 2006

Position: A-320

Posts: 6,929

who cares?????????????? we will all be able to get very experienced at a regional when 65 passes....................

05-28-2007, 07:12 PM

#13

higney85

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Joined APC: Sep 2006

Position: Bus driver

Posts: 2,553

Quote:

Originally Posted by SharkAir

I think if I were JO, I would be doing the exact same thing. And I think it's true that it'll be hard to come by a shortage of low/no-time wonder pilots wanting to fly for free, or even pay to fly. He's a businessman, not a pilot advocate.

Besides, if the FAA will go along with a 2000 hr. captain and a 250 hr. FO, it must be safe.

It will take a crash- people's live prematurely ended- and pilot error (inexperience obvious) for the FAA to change their tone. Regs come from blood as sad as that sounds.

05-28-2007, 07:31 PM

#14

trunk junk

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Joined APC: Apr 2007

Posts: 80

I cant imagine a shortage of 500 hr guys, or 1000 hr guys. Look at how many flight schools and university programs have opened up in the last 10 years. These days people can go from 0 to 500 hours with all the nessesary ratings in a year pretty easy before they have time to figure out what they got into.

Latley I been instructing nearly all new cfis and most have no idea about what a job in the regionals is like or very much at all about the industry. They dont know about pay, work rules and all the pros and cons ect. For them flying looked like a fun job all they had to do to get the money to do it was sign their name and start having fun.

There is a shortage of instructors right now though. you can make 50-60k yr teaching european guys under JAL. you can actualy make enough money to live on and fly too while your still young.

05-28-2007, 09:55 PM

#15

Joepa84

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Position: Left Out

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50-60K instructing!?! What needs to be done for an FAA CFI to teach under JAR ? Also, this may be the wrong thread, but is there an easy way for U.S. pilot to fly in Europe (other than marying someone with EU residency.) Feel free to PM

05-29-2007, 04:23 AM

#16

BoilerUP

The NeverEnding Story

Joined APC: Sep 2005

Posts: 7,547

Quote:

Originally Posted by trunk junk

I cant imagine a shortage of 500 hr guys, or 1000 hr guys. Look at how many flight schools and university programs have opened up in the last 10 years.

I'd be willing to bet there have been MANY more flight schools close in the last 10 years than opened up...

05-29-2007, 04:52 AM

#17

cyrcadian

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Quote:

Originally Posted by BoilerUP

I'd be willing to bet there have been MANY more flight schools close in the last 10 years than opened up...

I've been waiting for that one in Sanford to do just that.

05-29-2007, 04:54 AM

#18

ExperimentalAB

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Posts: 3,807

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoilerUP

I'd be willing to bet there have been MANY more flight schools close in the last 10 years than opened up...

Mom and Pop shop's shutting their doors while the Academies take over...! There are fewer flight schools, but the big ones train tons of students. Makes for a Certificate Factory IMHO.

05-29-2007, 04:59 AM

#19

Free Flyer

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Joined APC: Feb 2006

Position: B777 FO/IRO

Posts: 264

Revolving Reserve

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike734

In theory you can crew an aircraft with an experienced Captain and a very new FO. It was done that way for years. Sure there were plenty of accidents but todays aircraft and flying environment are much safer. Airlines like KLM have 500 hour FOs flying in 747s. So why won't it work for Mesa and others like that?

The answer is longevity. Since Meas and those types are not career airlines the FOs will be "trained" by relatively low time Captains. Senior captains will move on rapidly and create upgrade opportunities too soon for fresh FOs. Also, since the upgrade time is minimal the FOs will not get enough experience in the right seat to be good mentors for new hire FOs that replace them. The cycle will continue until there are a series of tragic accidents cause by crew error by young inexperienced, (ambitious) crews.

I think guys like JO have not thought this through. They believe there is a never ending supply of 500 hour wonders willing to work for peanuts until they can upgrade. I don't believe this will continue in the near future. Majors will be in a better position to hire very young FOs because of the lengthy upgrade time. Mesas and the smaller airlines like them will be forced to raise pay and working conditions to retain good mentors or be faced with dangerous crews.

I'm just thinking out loud. That's what occurred to me today.

Since I have family who works for KLM I can tell you why it isn't such a big deal over there. They have revolving reserve where every crewmember sits reserve 2 months out of the year (one month every 6) so as to keep inexperienced captains from flying with new FO's. It's a decent idea and helps to keep everybody in the learning loop, however, if you try and tell a 25 year captain here in the states that he's going to sit reserve, he'd probably tell you where to stick it.

On a side note, I feel for the new captains at CAL as we are hiring so much and have a lot of inexperience coming onboard. They have been very good at giving advice and help all along the way and the key to remember is that training in an ongoing event, you can always learn something new!