Prop Jobs Coming Back?
 

Embraer might be headed in an unexpected direction after Boeing left them hanging out to dry.

Carbon concerns might create an artificial market, even if airlines and pax would rather not. They are efficient, and can be made pretty smooth and quiet with modern tech.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-e...-idUSKBN2831ZV

For the US market, I hope not. The only main regional that still flies the turboprop is Horizon. They have been adding jets to what is now a 50-50 mix.

Europe and elsewhere still have turboprops in many places.

You hope not? Don’t like props?

Love me some beta howl

This sounds like the Q400 argument all over again.

If it's gotta a better APU than the CRJ, better anti-ice than a CRJ, and climbs higher than FL250 (limit of the Q400), preferably to at least FL320, and wider seats than a CRJ, I really don't know how I could hate it. Hopefully they keep the window in the Lav.

PAX do not. Just sit in SEA concourse C and you will hear. (Hub of Horizon).

I believe you’re right. they may sell some overseas, but it will be like the Space jet, or whatever it’s called now. They won’t find any u.s. airlines buying it.

We'll see what kind of carbon mandates we get going forward. If the left can lay off the socialism and anarchy platforms, I'm pretty sure they can advance significant climate policies in the foreseeable future. Even the right wing is starting to get on board, it's coming.

Turboprops will only make a small dent of course but they're something the industry can hold up and say "look what we're doing"! Especially if they get some hybrid options on the market, which might be barely technically feasible for short-haul regional ops (energy density numbers don't even remotely work for longer/larger ops).

This right here. What the CRJ200 taught passengers is that just because it is a jet it doesn't make it a better flying experience.

who is "the industry" ? CEOs ? Unions?

while this nebulous term is defined, if they don't do anything pro-environment, who holds "the industry" accountable?

nobody. nobody cares. the only thing airlines care about is bodies in seats and making money. Joe Traveler could give 2 sh**ts about if his airplane is carbon free. He wants his $29 ticket.

carbon mandates and green energy have been the talk of politicians worldwide, for years. Put "green energy" up there with "inflation" and "employment numbers" as hot topics. Left and right both:

https://georgewbush-whitehouse.archi...an-energy.html

https://www.reaganlibrary.gov/archiv...ing-substances

Props exist because they are economical for the mission planned.

The "industry" in this context is not unions lol.

It is airlines and airframe manufacturers, plus all supporting business infrastructure. In other words the people who don't want onerous, heavy-handed, and ill-conceived climate regulations and taxes interfering with their operations and revenue. IATA and A4A are the avatars of the "industry" as we know it.

They have all realized that they are going to have to get their own house in order or someone like AOC is going to do it for them, and they're not going to like that.

For a long time the industry kicked the can in the interest of short-term market performance, while making some green gestures in markets where the public might care a little (ie not DFW).

Public and political sentiment is changing, and they have to react. Especially now that the US will be getting back on the carbon wagon, maybe in spades.

In this case it is not the average Joe beer drinking passenger that matters. What he thinks is irrelevant. It is what Governments think along with their ever increasing environmental standards. Any airline who buy a gas guzzler at this point is going to find themselves restricted in the near future.

Problem is that the public equates a turbofan with safety, and spinny things as dangerous.

Don’t ask me why, because I don’t understand it...

Is there really that much fear out there in the flying public of turbo props?

Like do we have actual concrete examples that the vast majority of the public thinks props are dangerous?

Make it as comfortable inside as the new Embraers and I don’t think anyone will care.

Heck I think flying on a Q400 is a vastly more comfortable experience than a CRJ.

Agreed. Also, if it has a better air conditioning system than the CRJ-200 and pax don't have to gate check their bags it's a win for them.....

Except that pushing the climate change agenda IS socialism.

It's kinda like asking the question: "Is there really that much fear out there in the pilot population of AOC running the White House now that a Democrat is the President-elect?"

Lots of anecdotal evidence. A bunch of hearsay. Something on the Internet. You can point to an episode in the past where a hard stance was taken for a second, and then pulled back (the Q400 at United, ACA mandate to have health insurance).

In the end, though, it's hard to say for sure.

You've got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the New West. You know...morons.

there you have it folks. more things to worry about

2021 Things to Fear

COVID
murder hornets
Jeff Bezos
(added today) turboprops

If the “industry” cared they wouldn’t be flying big jets all over the world and coast-to-coast more then half empty. Sure, buy some props to fly to Buffalo and say “we care”, what a joke.

Socialist turboprops

Sorry, but....
 

I think you guys are far too worried about extremists like AOC and other "Green New Deal" types having influence in this. She's only a rookie congresswoman who probably has just a 20% approval rating outside her district. They can jump up and down and scream all they want, but remember that Mitch McConnell still controls what legislation will come for a vote, and he's one tough SOB.

He's going to laugh when they try to get a radical bill through the senate.

There is dislike, not so much fear.

I'm pretty sure Buffalo is the last place anyone will be flying props anytime soon.

Literally heard a PAX today in ATL say "Well atleast it's not a prop plane" while looking at a CRJ200 out the window.

Considering that they had prop service up until just a few years ago....

OK. Well they are fun to fly. LoL

Ha! Awesome reference!

I used to fly the Brasilia, and most pax really liked the plane. But I think it was more for the novelty... Many of them took pics with it, ha ha.

Maybe currently in 2020, but not necessarily in 2028.

The Japanese tourists would take pics. Kind of like an amusement park ride.

Hope they don’t come back in the states, at least for big city pairs like they used to. Flew in the back of a Colgan q400 when they were still kind of new and wasn’t impressed at all, still a shaky prop. I feel like the dash8 was quieter although it felt like a 45 min flight took forever.

Ooo good call. Baggage space is a must too. Fix all those things and you have a great regional plane.

I think there’s a big difference between folks complaining and folks booking around a particular aircraft. If it’s cheap enough or if it’s the only game in town, they’ll fly it.

Agreed.

A little more than 100,000 people voted for her in a district where a glass of water with a -D next to their name would win in a land slide. 30 years ago, without twitter and the internet, no one would know who she is. Today she is a liability for the Democratic Party as she is the de facto face of the party.

The Democrats have serious problems coming in 2022 and 2024, if recent election results are a bell weather. Now is not the time to advance a nebulous climate agenda.

To sum this up - I’m not worried about climate change legislation affecting our industry any time soon.

I’d agree with this. The most radical green policy affecting our industry would be some type of environmental tax on fuel. That would increase operating cost making some aircraft types more appealing than others. If fuel stays cheap, the 50 seaters and other old and inefficient types have some life left in them. If the price of fuel goes up significantly, they will be shown a nice parking spot in the desert.

I think “the industry” has done plenty for carbon footprint since March 2020. Half the fleet is at 0% emissions.

back to being scared about other stuff....

:rolleyes:

Yeah we won't have to worry about climate regulation. We should worry more about adjusting newly built models to extreme weather. Like landing with XXX/20G70, hepa filters strong enough for forest fire smoke, amphibious options, etc

So is flying a 172 on days off.

Bingo. What I have heard, as well. Of course the SEA Concourse C has Q400s and E175s. No comparison in the PAX mind.