Many people ask that. Consider that pre-Covid there was early upgrade and got hours faster at mesa than anywhere else. If you can get out of the regionals and to a legacy one year early that’s worth $400k on the back end of a 20+ year legacy career. For every year your get there before you would have going somewhere else where you’re averaging 5-600 hours a year.

Since day one in this industry I’ve been told, “go somewhere you wouldn’t mind getting stuck”?!

And even pre Covid, weren’t upgrade times similar at a few other regionals? And if you wanted to fly your butt off you could

You made a typo.. no one cares

have you ever lived in base? Sure beats the hell out of commuting and wasting half your check on a crashpad. That’s your choice though.

That’s the safe move. Some people gamble more. Fortune favors the bold. All depends on your personal risk tolerance and overall life situation.

done both, and I sure do appreciate living in base. Thanks for your input!

Ok. Fair. I suppose as long as you’re still happy with your decision!

I had seen sub one year upgrades pre Covid at mesa. Im not sure I know of anywhere else that could have happened. I could be wrong on that.

Pre-covid Envoy had immediate upgrades.

PSA had people upgrading immediately after completion of FO training, pre-covid. That was DEFINITELY not specific to Mesa 😂

My 2+ years on reserve says otherwise. You’re definitely wrong. No, I wasn’t the only one either. So thankful to be moving on though!!!

With no prior 121?

You're saying Mesa upgrades pilots in less than a year with no prior qualifying time?

‘There is nobody upgrading at a regional under a year with no prior 121 time….

that was my point about mesa. Someone could show up at 1500 hours and get an upgrade at month 12. Houston people not included.

others were being obtuse and saying they had people upgrading out of fo training. Well, that’s a lateral move, which are generally not a good idea at the regional level.

It happened pre Covid. I know of a few who upgraded at month 12. They picked up all the flying they could and blocked right under 100 every month.

Guess if you’re going to be obtuse, then there were nearly identical opportunities at other regionals for people to get the legally-required time to upgrade as soon as possible, 117 flight time limits notwithstanding.

But please, continue to convince us all that Mesa is a magical unicorn.

All I’m saying is that in 2018 when I was looking at the regionals mesa had the quickest upgrade of all of them. When you did the math over a wholly owned or other regional with better pay you lost out on a lot of money on the back end because you would spend a year or more at those regionals and only make about 30k more.

In the long run you’re losing out on a lot of money, from 401k contributions to an entire year or more of captain pay on the back end of your earning.

Getting your time and getting out of the regionals should be everyone’s goal. My opinion. There are reasons to go to every regional and reasons not to. Each person has to figure out their priority and make their own decisions. I just laugh at the people who say there was no good reason to go to mesa. That wasn’t true at the time.

OK, Mesa wasn’t the only place where folks can upgrade within 12 months from DOH prior to Covid. Air Wisconsin, GoJet, Skywest, PSA (I upgraded in 12 months here and PSA were forcing upgrades prior), Piedmont , Envoy (forcing upgrades), TSA, Compass.

You have bad data on the WOs because there were a lot of FOs doing everything possible to keep from giving up their bases and QOL due to a forced upgrade such as bidding reserve and signing up for last call out to drag out the inevitable forced upgrade. But the opportunities were there for the taking.

The exception was Endeavor because of the log jam of FOs there and Republic because of the their upgrade requirements of having 2500 hours TT (this kept 1000 R-ATPs from upgrading at 2000 hours/1000 121). Catch my drift.

Things change, and quickly. When I went to a job fair in ‘18 all of the WOs were advertising 18 month upgrades. I couldn’t, in good conscience, recommend Mesa to anyone right now. At one point though, there was one reason to go there, that was to get time and get out. My path will have me here 3.5 years, which I’m good with. It seems like a pretty fast transition to a legacy.

My best month at Envoy was 104 hours block. If you worked like a dog, you could hit the required 950 at Envoy in a year too. Thinking Mesa was somehow unique in that was ignorant.

I've been looking for upgrade requirements per airline on either their company page or the airline pilot central respective pages. Some don't seem to list it publicly. Any additional sources?

‘Upgrade requirements for each airline will be specific to the airline itself s won’t be located in the airlines operation manual or some cases Ops manual and CBA. That information would not be posted online. However, FAA upgrade requirements for 121 are located at FAR 121.435(A)(1)

Tracking that. I just remember a few years ago amongst the AA wholly owned it was posted on their respective websites.

I gotta say, I always find your shtick hilarious!

troll level 1000

Last year was an oddity. You won't be seeing much of the same since the majors have begun adjusting schedules for the lack of regional pilots they've sucked up.

To answer your question, ZW has great soft pay. I believe OO does as well but don't quote me on that.

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Question:

How much house were you guys able to afford as a first year FO with no debts? 100k? 300k?

Based off of the the first year FO numbers here, even if you had a 20% down payment: you’d be lucky to buy anything in most airline bases on FO salary alone.

https://www.nerdwallet.com/mortgages...-affordability

215k but having a VA loan helped keep loan and mortgage price down

41% DTI is max they will underwrite on a conventional loan.

So the answer is: You can borrow more than you can afford.

The amount you can mortgage is constrained by DTI. DTI takes all debt into consideration so the amount you can borrow will be affected by outstanding student loans, credit card debt, car loans, credit score, etc.

Go get a pre approval, it’s free, then go shopping.

Starting Price most of the FOs I talk to are looking at is over $400,000, even with student loans.
More than I'd be comfortable with, but seems that is well within most of their comfort zones.

Anyone willing to take out $200K for a student loan is probably comfortable with $400K for a house loan, for better or for worse.

Actually, the max you can borrow conventional is 49% DTI assuming credit is solid. I'm a loan officer working through flight school. The only time we ever go as high as that is with extenuating circumstances (non-borrowing spouse but is employed, etc.)

Shameless plug as a pilot knowledgeable loan officer licensed in many states. Cheers!

First year bring home at min guarantee is going to be in the $2,500-$3,000/mo range. If you put 20% down ($80k) on a $400k house you’ll be paying in the neighborhood of $2,000/mo for principal, interest and taxes. You better have some roommates or a spouse with a good job. Keep in mind that your credit history is much like your PRIA. It stays with you forever and you should do your best to keep it clean.

49%, damn. That's one way to experience what house poor feels like! :)

I'm not sure where I got 41% from. It was a few years ago and I think that's what my loan guy back then said I would qualify.

Dang, they must think I live poor.

Weird times.
More than once I've heard Only and $350,000 when talking about their Condo or Townhome. Then hear that it now appraises at over $425000.
Only time will tell who will die with the most toys. I'm thinking they'll be Okay, and my investments will be eaten alive by inflation.