SKW SAPA President
 

Anybody know much about the SAPA president? Especially his recent email?

The situation sounds pretty bad, but I don't know the guy and didn't know what led up to the whole thing. Trying to decide if it's all legit, or if he possibly got into SAPA with the intent all along of acting as an ALPA agent provocateur?

Thoughts?

To lots of people that e-mail pretty much sealed the deal against alpa. That and their little lawsuit thing.

Just the opposite for me. I sent in my card today. Nothing like realizing your so called reps are so far up inside Jerry's a$$ that they don't know who they are representing. Come get my dues ALPA, just don't forget who you work for.

Alpa will only hurt skywest

I was kind of thinking it was the other way around....

I'm not opposed to ALPA but I think right now we have a lot more to lose then we have to gain. The probability that ALPA will get us that little bit we're missing IE better first year pay, better PBS, etc. is not likely.

Just to play devil's advocate here. If JA is pulling the strings of SAPA, I would be willing to bet that the OC/ALPA is pulling the strings behind our new president (that being said I think he is a great guy). My problem with APLA is that they are out for themselves, not us. They are a business just like Skywest and they are trying to sell us on the need for their services. We already have one of the best combos of work rules/pay/upgrade times in the industry. I'm not saying ALPA would have a negative impact. I just don't see that they are offering anything worth our 2%.

Slap! You're an "IDIOT!" Everyone I've talked to has said they’re going to send in their card now. Does SAPA really deserve our support?

Who's really running the show @ SAPA? Nolan? Other EBs? No it's JA! Mgmnt, errrrrr, SAPA says they have the same power as unions in order to keep the "Wool" pulled over there pilots eyes.

Remember that SAPA's loyalty is to Mgmnt, history has made that painfully obvious.

I don't understand what the big deal all of a sudden is.

The big deal is that the company is arguing that SAPA is in fact our legal bargaining organization under the RLA, which is completely false. Even if SAPA was somehow found to be a union, unions started or run by the company are illegal. 3 EB members were testifying on behalf of the company.

Bah... nevermind.

I can't believe this guy just came out and said what he said. He must either be leaving or has no fear of losing his job.

I was thinking what appears the majority of others are thinking, and that is to send in the card now. I still can't believe this guy just came out and said that!!!

With my personal experience with ALPA, I hope all of you hardcore ALPA guys don't think that SkyWest is going to get better once ALPA gets on property. I personally feel it is going to get much worse. The tension between management and the pilot group will make this a miserable place to be and no one will look forward to flying or going to work anymore. Yes, we will have lawyers on our side if something goes wrong, but that is it. They will still mess with the contract like TSA and Mesa does, and grievances won't be settled any sooner than they are now. With that being said, I guess I am happy that I will have access to a lawyer in the event that something goes wrong. However, I know I am not looking forward to what is about to happen when ALPA gets voted in.

Exactly....let's not forget that the SAPA secretary was called to testify on management's behalf, NOT SAPA! That is a huge red flag right there. Not to mention all of the other extremely questionable and fishy issues that were brought to light at the hearing. If there was ever any doubt that SAPA was in bed with management, that doubt is now firmly squashed. I also can't believe that our new SAPA president had the b*lls to come out public with all that info, but good for him. It's about time.

Yeah coming from the Godfather of 121 airlines..............you know whats good for SKywest

Sooo.. what did this guy say ?

Nothing I wanted to hear...

Why fix something that isn't broken?? The biggest difference between SKW and the Mesa/TSA's out there is that everybody, down to the Janitor loves coming to work...I've had enough of that third-party tension with Mgmt - it only breeds distrust and I want NOTHING to do with it. SKW mgmt knows they have to stay competitive (from an HR perspective) to stay in the top-tier of Regionals...and they have every intention of keeping it that way.

It doesn't bother me that SAPA my be influenced by Mgmt. We take care of them by doing our Jobs the best we can, and they take care of us.

Enough of this ALPA-business...if things ever go sour with Mgmt, they've got my vote, but until then I'd rather keep it a Family Airline.

A legitimate ASAP program alone is enough reason to have ALPA at SkyWest.

SAPA and ASAP are two different things...

I can't believe that not one of you guys (who all seem to be Skywest pilots) have not even mention, dare I say thought of the moral implication. Some Skywest pilots have said "the threat of a union is better than a union", now I realize that is not the feelings of everyone of you guys/gals, but it would appear to be in this string.

THE THREAT OF A UNION IS NOT FREE!!!!! Someone is paying for that threat. Someone is paying dues to form negotiating committees that push for years for a better contract. When the Comair guys went on strike, they made it better for all of us. When JA came to ASA and said we had to take a 13% pay cut, we held our ground and now Skywest gets an over ride for 70 seat flying. Every time JA has thrown you guys a bone, it is not out of the kindness of his heart, but rather keeping up with what other pilot groups have fought for. The Unions bring up the bar for all airlines.

I wish I worked in an industry that unions were not necessary, but I don't. Look at the ridiculous pay outs the exec's are taking at United and Northwest. I hope if you get the chance you will read "Flying the Line" and at least when you vote, you can do so from a position of knowledge.

I'm not looking to debate you guys, but rather hope that this thought of who is paying for your threat will at least be considered as you turn in your cards.

Stick
CR7 Cap, ASA

Exactly. Word on the street is he's headed to Alaska. Nothing to lose sending out an email like that.

That is a very good point, but ALPA Pilot Groups are not fighting for all Airline Pilots, they're fighting for better QOL for themselves. SKW management is smart enough to know they have to keep up. In fact, they are doing more than just keeping up. And like I said before, if it comes down to mgmt deciding enough was enough, I'd be the first to turn in my card...Until then, however, I'll stick with the great atmosphere we've got here. I'm not a teenager rebelling against my parents anymore - I left that years ago. I hope my fellow SKW Pilots have as well!

Of course, I feel for any Pilot fighting for a better contract...you've got my support 100%. Going ALPA won't be showing any more support. And for all those Pilots out there telling us that we should be going ALPA, please, please, please don't be so selfish. And I mean that in the best way possible...But for what ALPA could potentially bring to us would cost us SO much more in happiness. And in the end, that's what matters, right? I'd rather take home a buck less per hour than fight tooth and nail for a few more cents on the dollar, and just to lose, in effect, the personal feel of this company that most of us have come to enjoy.

I think that a union at SkyWest is a dumb thought 1300 pilots ago. Now that we are darn near 2700 strong, Bessie in Crew Support does not know my name. Dan in dispatch has no clue who I am. Therefore, when I do them a favor, they have no obligation to me, in reality, I have no clue who they are either.

SkyWest is too big to operate on a "mah-and-pah" platform. The company has outgrown its skill set. I think we need an organized, set-in-stone contract that spells out exactly when Bessie and Dan can contact me and what we both get when they do.

I truly dig the vendors who have contracts with SkyWest. I am a provider of Pilot Services: I don't get a contract, but Pepsi and Coke do? What kind of crap is that? If Pepsi doesn't fulfill the requirements, you replace them with Coke, right?

Replace me, SkyWest.

Yes, I wasn't talking about SAPA. I was talking about having an ASAP program at an airline makes a union worth it for almost no other reason than that. Especially when many of the pilots are the type that will be looking for major airline jobs a few years down the road.

It is morally bankrupt to expect your gains to come on the backs of other pilot groups when SKW management is compelled to "match" or respond to what happens at other properties. If the skill set required to do this job is to be rewarded properly (i.e more than a meter maid or garbage man), all pilot groups are going to have to do some lifting.

The demeanor of the company will rest squarely on the backs of management and how they choose to respond to the pilots legal right to organize. Southwest is the most organized company in the industry and they seem to have pretty good relations and work well together. ALPA does not have to mean things get ugly unless JA wants it that way and if that happens then you know who you really work for.

With all the posts about union carriers bringing up wages at Skywest I think it is noteworthy that over the past 5 or so years it has been Skywest pilots (among others) that have held the line. While some ALPA pilot groups have taken pay cuts to obtain additional flying Skywest pilots voted down a pay package and held out for a split of 200/700 rates. I am not knocking any other pilot group. My point is simply that Skywest does not simply follow along and match the pay scales of other carriers. We have been the best or among the best compensated regional pilots for a long time and I am certain that ALPA has used the Skywest pay scales as a part of negotiations at other carriers.

Its not all about the CRJ...

Does this not raise a red flag with anyone????? Why is skyw going to so much trouble to keep a union out? Do you honestly think they have your best interest at heart? Its all about the stock price period. You are a number, to be squeezed out of every bit of time they can get, so the "upper class" or whoever can relax in their cabana in the hamptons, sip "fine wine" and watch their skyw stock grow.

Our management is jumping ship with all the money they created. Within 2 years we will have entirely new management; will they have the same "friendly" attitude towards employees as their predecessors?
Remember our "union":D sapa has the advantage of all other unions in that they can change the policy manual as needed. Ha ha.

They are spending big money to stop the union. To bad all that money doesn’t go to our first year new hires. :mad:

If for nothing more we should vote in ALPA out of moral obligation to our peers in the airline industry for the pay standard they set for us!

Give me a break. Without unions you would be flying a 757 for 30k a year as captain, flying 150 hours a month without tcas or any other union negotiated benefits. Skywest success over the past years has to do with sound management not the fact that we were not ALPA. Look at the big picture.
You’re totally delusional; our 700 pay came on the backs of the comair pilots.

Please dont be so selfish? Please explain.

My post metioned nothing about Skywest being successful because we aren't ALPA. You would have to be delusional to reach that conclusion. And it is foolish to suggest that any of us would know what the industry would be like without unions. Unions have been a part of what we do for so long that none of us can say what it would be like without them. The unions are big business now just like the airlines. I am not a management apoligist. I know that Mgmt is just out for themselves. The problem is that the union is too. The OC at Skywest complain all day long about SAPA rep who don't fly the line and take home a nice paycheck, but who do you think will be the first ones lined up to do the exact same thing for the union instead. At least the SAPA salaries are coming out of the companies pocket, not mine.

All of your arguments above are excellent. I see everyone’s side but Bla Bla Bla has it right. We need representation now before we have a complete Mgmnt overhaul and they do a complete overhaul on our pay and QOL to impress the share holders and gain themselves huge bonuses (at our expense). Will things get better, I'm not expecting them to, but I do want legal representation to stop Mgmnt from changing both pay and QOL policies when flying is lost.

It will be a sad day when the hesitation of others catches up with us.

Stick, your point is historically valid. We would have nothing if it weren’t for the efforts of others and for pilots to say that we don’t truly know because we’ve never existed without unions is narrow-minded. Mgmnt will always be for Mgmnt.

You must not have been around for that whole "70 seats for 50 seat pay" ordeal.

You also must have forgotten about your Brasilla coworkers, who didn't get a penny raise in your latest, greatest, 1% raise for RJ pilots only pay package.

Did you ever stop to think that might be a reason some ALPA groups have had to take concessions - to remain cost competitive with Skywest whose pilots were willing to fly larger aircraft for the same pay?

You're right. I was hired shortly after the original 50/70 deal, but I don't think that deal happened because SKW didn't have a union. If the guys there at the time didn't take that pay some other ALPA carrier would have. Those rates were a fact of life in the short term, post 9/11. And again to be clear. I am not defending mgmt. I just feel that with a union it is like having two mgmt groups. Both are being funded by our (all employees, not just pilots) work. I don't think ALPA can get us 2% better than what we have right now. Look at ASA. I made friends with some of their guys when they still had SLC. Their MEC was promising them that they wouldn't let the base close. Then they were promising that they would get a new contract and retro pay. One of them finally gave up and is a recent hire of SKW after 5 years at ASA. It is disgusting the way ASA pilot have been treated and who knows they may get some great contract. If they do I will admit that I was wrong. What I see happening right now is them losing flying and losing good pilots because most who I have talked to hate being there. I come to work at SKW and most people are happy here. How can ALPA promise that we will be better off with them when we see our peers at ASA being treated worse than we are treated?

......................................?

Easy Boiler!

You said “Skywest pilots were willing to fly larger aircraft for the same pay.” No! We didn’t/don't have representation so we we’re “FORCED!" BTW, I was a Bro pilot when we voted on our BS pay proposal and I voted NO! I wanted more.

Our total pay/QOL package (even before the BS new pay policy) was & still is well above 90+% of the industry. You can argue a $1 here or there on our hourly rates but at the end of the year our W2's place us right up there with the #1. So, it's not our pay that caused some ALPA groups to take concessions, it was $hity Mgmnt and bankruptcies on their (not meaning pilots) part. Don't put this on us, ignorance like that really Pi$$ me off! :confused:

Its not ignorance..it is a simple fact and likely one cause among MANY for concessions at two regionals in particular; Comair and AWAC.

While there might be parity in the payrates and/or W2s *now*, Comair and ASA's crew costs simply were not competitive for the 700 when Skywest was flying them for 200 payrates. Nor was AWAC competitive for UAX flying when Skywest pilots were flying 700s for less than AWAC pilots were flying 200s for. You are right, those common payrates were dictated to Skywest pilots due by management...but there seemingly was no massive outcry from Skywest pilots counter to it, and you cannot deny the effect it had on other airlines' bargaining power.

Please don't mistake what I'm saying....I am not blaming the ills of the regional industry on Skywest or Skywest pilots, nor am I blaming concessions at ALPA carriers on them/ I am not so ignorant as to believe that a buck on an hourly rate would be the only reason a carrier might gain or lose flying. I also know full well that Skywest pilots beyond their first year make equal or possibly even more than what I do, given slightly better workrules and profit sharing.

That said, it would be highly naive for one to think that flying 70 seats for 50 seat wages did not put major crew cost pressures on the competition, and that those crew cost pressures (along with others) did not contribute to concessionary bargaining at other regional carriers to remain financially competitive.

Jetjok I think you and I are much closer to being in complete agreement about the 50/70 situation than you and your coworker rjboy are.

And that's why we're flying all of AWAC UAX flying. Oh Ya! We're not!!!!!!!!!!!! Hmmmmm………………..who is? Maybe MAG or GoJet? Maybe……………….?

Don't forget that we were "FORCED to fly 70 at 50 rates!" Things change, although I'm not satisfied with it, we're no longer doing that.

ok relax everyone. the new sapa president was elected by the pilots who voted for him. What a lot of people didnt know at the time was he is a strong alpa supporter, which was great news for the alpa organizing committee. the previous sapa president from what i understand was a total company man. so this was a welcome change. If anyone feels cheated by this, YOU voted for him. and I think this will bring good results.

Does anyone else see something wrong with SAPA members being paid by SKW... talk about conflict of interest!

A union is only as strong as the pilots who support it and are actively participating. If you have a bunch of jerkoffs serving as reps, of course youll get nothing out of it, but Skywests OC is a group of extremely level headed pilots. They want to start off with taking POLICY, and turning it into a CONTRACT. Is that too much to ask?

The pro-sapa or anti union guys at skywest need to understand what the organizing committee wants. Theyre not going in guns blazing trying to flip everything upside down. This wont creat hostility with management. If you can firm up a contract in good graces this will actually be a great move for SKW's future.