New hire washout rate?
 

Anybody have any idea what the washout rate is for newhires at say...AmEagle, XJET, Pinnacle....etc...

Don't know about Pinn or AE. I have heard mostly good things about AE, very few negative.

As far as XJT goes, it seems it was maybe 1 per class at most, maybe 1 per every other class. Although I have heard of cases where it was higher and lower. So those numbers are proabably just an average. 1 guy in my initial new hire class didn't make it. It had to do with him, not XJT's training department.

Being through both an initial course and and upgrade course at XJT, if somebody can't make it though either, it's not the training departments fault here. They don't spoonfeed you, but they will work with you to get you through.

Industry average for those with no previous 121: 10%

A rigorous interview process can reduce that...SKW is about 1%.

A few programs are notorious...mesa D-8 has been as high as 70%, and I heard one of the eastern regionals is about 50%. There' something wrong if it's that high...you probably don't want to work there anyway.

I would agree that at XJT the average is probably 1 every other class. It depends on the individual more than on the training curriculum as stated above by dojet.

I just finished last month and we had a class of 32 and one had failed out. i know they gave him a few chances before sent him home. I had no previous 121 along with most from our class and it was hard but they really do everything for you. But you do have to ask and want the help or you WILL go home.

it averages at least one per class. there was one guy in my class at eagle who washed out on the atr and about 4 on the jet. the last chataqua class that went to houston had a bunch wash out cause they were partying all during systems.

I was in that Chautauqua class until my Mom became very ill from her breast cancer treatment. So I left, but it wasn't due to partying. As for the people who washed out, by in large they were not the ones who were partying. In fact, two of the failures were 145 pilots for Mesa and ExpressJet. That just blew me away. The other five who did not finish had various issues.

In general, the experience at Flight Safety was uneven to say the least. There were lots of schedule changes and Chautauqua procedures were ignored by the staff for the most part. The worst part was the check airman. Friends from the class told me that he did nothing but swear at them during the check ride. This came from each person to whom I spoke. FWIW, he has a terrible reputation among the other check airmen and line pilots.

For those with experience at other airlines, is a check airman who constantly uses profanity the rule or the exception? Personally, I think it's the height of unprofessionalism. Having said all that, had the guys been able to fly the manuevers, they would be on the line.

Every airline seems to have one @zz clown in the training dept, but constant profanity during a checkride is ridiculous. I'm a sailor but I would have sued the guy...that's not acceptable in the workplace during a formal evaluation.

hey HercDriver where do you fly 130's out of? I'm interviewing in Minneapolis this week.

Rick is right, that is not the norm. ASA has a great training dept (except for one or two) and I've never had someone cuss me out. But.... a piece of advice; Cowboy the F%8k up! If you can't handle someone using profanity you're not going to make it on line when the ramper, gate agent, F/A and Captain have all rubbed you the wrong way on about your 3rd day of 5 hours of sleep.

I learn to fly with a guy who hit me in the helmet and then smacked the VSI or Altimeter (to increase my scan).

I'm not picking on you, but a little mental toughness will serve you well. It's possible he's doing on purpose to rattle your cage, just to see how you'll deal with the pressure. Don't let it get to you. Make a game of it. Tell yourself there is nothing he can do to you that will prevent you from flying the plane well.

Stick

I've read the entire string and no one mentioned something that I think is important. The 10 % thing is probably true, what is different is how hard the companies will work to get you through training. Our mins are so low that the number of people getting through in 8 sims has gone down drastically. One pilot got 80+ hours of IOE!!! Once they have you in the program and spend money on you, it is in their best intrest to get you through.

Stick

80+ hours????? You have to be kidding? Anyone needing 80+ hours of IOE to learn how to fly a plane should not be a pilot. This is another reason not to hire low time pilots.

I think I just may **** myself the next time I see an RJ Capt leave the cockpit to use the lav in flight.

One of the folks in the class behind me ended up doing 3 four day trips of IOE, I'm sure he/she needed the experience, and given the fact that he/she had the right attitude, I think the company made the right decision. Since then, the individual has been through a PC and tons of great reviews from everyone they've flown with.

I'll like to know what your experience is with this subject, what company do you work again?

Hey, nice avatar. that erj actually looks like it might have some head room!:D

I heard the regionals had removed the "lady J adapters" from their fleets to save money. Makes for a lot of "walks of shame":D

80 hours holy crap batman...... we got 20 hours on the ATR42 way back when ........ The get them through at any cost is sorta scary.....

Hey Wiggler.... I know what you mean my T-37 Primary instructor was an ex marine turned AF pilot and that dude loved to bang our helmets off the canopy...course that was before political correctness.. and YES he could swear like a sailor as well....... He was really a pretty good guy once you got know him.... ( just for persepective......in my UPT class we started with 66 and graduated 30.. )

What's a "lady J adapter?"

Google is your friend..

Partying is the only thing that got me through systems down there...

IMO a professional airline training environment is not the place for old-skool military "fear, intimidation, and ridicule" training and checking.

Its one thing to tell somebody to get their sh!t together or that they're "sucking ass" today but beyond that starts getting into professionalism...and the distinction between the two isn't exactly a fine line.

Boiler,
I'm not saying getting wacked in the head is a positive learning experience, but seriously, the airline business has become kitten gentle. If some spoiled little brat is going to crap a toaster because somebody yells at him or says a 4 letter word, then I'd just as soon not have that person in my right seat.

But you're right, their is a line and getting wacked in the head crossed that line (more than once in my case!)

Stick

im no worse for the wear having my helmet bounced off the canopy a few times.....

Its not just about stick and rudder.. guys have to be able to operate and fly under stressful situations without melting down, and that is the point. My UPT class graduated less than 50% of its starting class.... did everyone that washed out have NO flying skill...no way.. but in THAT environment the idea was to weed out those who couldnt hack it... and sometimes that was more than just stick and rudder skills. Would I do it instructing...probably not and most Mil instructors dont or didnt either... but it did happen and it served its limited purpose. Military flight training ( at least 20 years ago when i did it ) is much different than even airline training..some things better ( in my opinion ) and some things worse... it is what is is.. or was in my case.

Agreed!

"The xxxxification of America continues."

Just so everyone knows, I don't have a problem with foul language. I play golf for God's sake. Foul language and golf go hand in hand. Still, I don't think foul language, used in an abusive and intimidating manner, promotes professionalism. Everyone swears, some more than others, but there's a time and place for it. I don't think a checkride conducted by a company official is one of those places and times. I can see the other side of the argument though.

Well...never had a Stan/Eval check pilot swear at me....but sure had plenty in flight school unload..LOL

Skywest
 

Anyone care to elaborate on the Skywest training department? Do they train to proficiency, or does the newbie get just get one chance to screw up and earn a bad reputation with the good old boy network over there?

Bump. How are the wash out rates these days at Eagle, Skywest, xpress jet, etc???

[mod note] thread revival- this thread is about 6 years old. Good job making use of the search function!

Casual research during the last 12 months tells me the washout rates at Great Lakes Airlines and Trans States Airlines are greater than 10%, they are probably in the neighborhood of 30-40% per class. They do not want to spend much money on training, it is cheaper to replace problem students than to bring them up to the standard.

Anecdotal reports on ExpressJet, ASA, and Skywest in the same time tell me they have less than 10% per class in washouts apiece, all 3 are fairly strong in their training efforts, and they tend to work with problem students.

Someone earlier in this thread made the point more than 10% washout rate indicates some sort of trouble or weakness in the hiring and/or training departments, while the lower figure for washouts cannot reasonably be less than about 5% per class due to unavoidable issues during training.

Anyone at Gulfstream or Jet U remembers the late Erwin. Stomping his feet. "This is a Suzie airplane!". "Who gave you your instrument rating? I oughta pull their ticket!".

LMAO!

Countless good times with that guy.

Great Lakes washout rate has been about 40% over the years.

I believe that it has improved latley. Captain upgrade training has a fairly high washout rate as well.

This is mostly due to the challenge of flying the sim. The 1900 sim is not easy, and of course there is no autopilot to rely on. All handflown, and the sim is much less stable than the airplane. It's a scan builder, and if you come to training without a solid scan, you won't make it through.

How do you washout of newhire RJ training? FMS, Autopilot, flight director all available, and with approaches loaded out of the box. Follow the profiles and callouts, how hard can it be? I have a hard time believing people fail this stuff. Must really be the wrong line of work to not be able to pass this.

I think it's the attention to detail. On the ERJ the max imbalance is 800lbs, and if you crossfeed the engines, get distracted with something else then you can get back to within 100lbs, and keep going to 800+ the otherway. The second you hit 801, you failed the ride. Stuff like that...

Well you'd have to cancel a master caution when the tanks get within 100 lbs of each other. So yeah pretty stupid if you then allow it to continue to 801 the other way.

Just curious, how difficult is the training for the CRJ or ERJ for someone who does not have any 121 experience or jet time?

Study, work hard, keep a good attitude. The great majority of new hires at L-ASA have no 121 or jet time.

Lots of people do it. Frankly I think it's easier than most turboprops for someone with a piston background...fewer moving parts.

If you don't have glass experience, get some before training. A PC-based flight sim game works fine for that...just pick a realistic airplane (not the SR-71 or space shuttle).

. M


Do you think the ATP JET TRANSITION COURSE would be worth to take it?

Dead on from what know as well. For new recruits, there also may be a good number of these washouts due to ATP standards being applied to people with much less than 1500 hours coupled with not much turbine experience.

Stick,
That is the most insulting thing I have ever herd. No one should ever tolerate a ahole who can't speak with a professional tone. A one off is ok, but not acceptable during training.
And I have been around the block plenty.