Ca to fo
#11
Prime Minister/Moderator

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 45,126
Likes: 796
From: Engines Turn or People Swim
Thanks for the comments. Good things to think about.
wings08 as some one who hasn’t yet been to 30000 as the pilot, I am guessing you would need roughly 75 give or take miles for a nice smooth constant descent. Would that be close? Maybe some speed brakes. I would guess there would be airframe specific procedures as well.
wings08 as some one who hasn’t yet been to 30000 as the pilot, I am guessing you would need roughly 75 give or take miles for a nice smooth constant descent. Would that be close? Maybe some speed brakes. I would guess there would be airframe specific procedures as well.
#12
Prime Minister/Moderator

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 45,126
Likes: 796
From: Engines Turn or People Swim
Start thinking about what you would do in X situation as a captain early on when you are an fo is a good idea. Basically don't just sit there and be a bump on a log with the "its not my problem" mindset because you're not the one with 4 strips until you are in upgrade training. Being an active an engaged crewmember is beneficial for the whole crew.
With experience you'll learn what the CA's need and when they need it, and you can anticipate and be ready to assist with a lot of it. If the CA is getting task saturated (usually on the ground) offer to make PA's, go coordinate with ramp, gate, ops, etc.
The flip side is that some CA's might consider pro-activeness to be "Right Seat Captain" behavior. There's a distinction between offering to assist, and being pushy or getting way ahead of the CA. But if a CA objects, then you just revert to mushroom mode and play some candy crush.
For IOE, yes review the jepps and company airport info before each day. If you're coming from GA, airline airports have a lot going on compared to Class D/E fields.
#13
Line Holder
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 1,384
Likes: 64
Can’t overstate this little nugget. 0600 means car/van driving at 0600 towards airport, not schlepping your bag through the lobby at 0600. Check in times are tight enough without dealing with a crew member who can’t get their ass in the van on time.
#15
On Reserve
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 68
Likes: 0
From: 757/767 FO
A good plan of action that has been used at the various airlines I've been at are "30 and 10", 30 miles out plan to be at 10,000 feet. That sets up for a good descent plan.
Another example of the "think of what you can do in x situation" is when I was a relatively new fo, we were out of ord with no Apu, in active precip below temp requiring anti ice and arrived at the jet with no heating set up to warm the cabin. In the crj 200, there is a specific procedure for bleed air for takeoff with no Apu and then another procedure for setting up for getting deiced with no Apu. What would your plan be for trying to get out on time, when and where to set up the bleeds for de ice, then takeoff that would maximize pax comfort (no bleeds = no cabin heat). All of this planning for all day flying around in that muck.
And van at 6 means be downstairs at 550.
Also, depending on the carrier, it can be quite easy to track your inbound flight for delays, especially in the summer. Don't be the fo or CA to go to the airport only to find out that your plane is 4 hours delayed for thunderstorms. Unwanted airport appreciation time!
Another example of the "think of what you can do in x situation" is when I was a relatively new fo, we were out of ord with no Apu, in active precip below temp requiring anti ice and arrived at the jet with no heating set up to warm the cabin. In the crj 200, there is a specific procedure for bleed air for takeoff with no Apu and then another procedure for setting up for getting deiced with no Apu. What would your plan be for trying to get out on time, when and where to set up the bleeds for de ice, then takeoff that would maximize pax comfort (no bleeds = no cabin heat). All of this planning for all day flying around in that muck.
And van at 6 means be downstairs at 550.
Also, depending on the carrier, it can be quite easy to track your inbound flight for delays, especially in the summer. Don't be the fo or CA to go to the airport only to find out that your plane is 4 hours delayed for thunderstorms. Unwanted airport appreciation time!
Last edited by Wings08; 08-17-2024 at 09:34 AM.
#16
On Reserve
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
Every airline will have its ups and downs. Don't immediately jump ship to somewhere else when your airline hits a roughpatch unless you're the one getting forloughed.
Everyone is expected to know their job and to accomplish it by the FOM and FM. That being said, this profession has two job discriptions.
FOs: Every Captain might do something a little different. Be a chameleon. As long as you think it is safe, legal, and not going to get you in trouble, generally just roll with it. Even if it's not 100% according to the FOM.
CAs: Mentor, encourage, train when needed. Above all, don't be an a$$.
Don't move for a company unless it's to a long standing hub. Every other domicile is just as likely to close as open.
Seniority is everything. Figure out where you want to end up, research what the best way to get there is, and attack it and don't stop until you get there. If your dream airline doesn't call, but someone else does, consider giving it a chance. You may like it and they might still call.
Don't be a slam-clicker. Hang out with your crews. Doesn't have to be every single layover, but it's a great time to ask non-flying questions about bidding, union stuff, ways to work the system, and how not to screw yourself when doing same.
Everyone is expected to know their job and to accomplish it by the FOM and FM. That being said, this profession has two job discriptions.
FOs: Every Captain might do something a little different. Be a chameleon. As long as you think it is safe, legal, and not going to get you in trouble, generally just roll with it. Even if it's not 100% according to the FOM.
CAs: Mentor, encourage, train when needed. Above all, don't be an a$$.
Don't move for a company unless it's to a long standing hub. Every other domicile is just as likely to close as open.
Seniority is everything. Figure out where you want to end up, research what the best way to get there is, and attack it and don't stop until you get there. If your dream airline doesn't call, but someone else does, consider giving it a chance. You may like it and they might still call.
Don't be a slam-clicker. Hang out with your crews. Doesn't have to be every single layover, but it's a great time to ask non-flying questions about bidding, union stuff, ways to work the system, and how not to screw yourself when doing same.
#17
New Hire
Joined: May 2023
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
From: First Officer
If a gate agent is likely to be there 20 to 30 minutes early, plan to do the same.
in the day and age of "quiet quitting" and "only doing what you're scheduled", this ain't the profession to do it.
If I knew an agent would be staffing the door (and my plane would be there), I'd always show 20 to 30 early. In the best cases, I was able to leisurely but thoroughly review the flight, check the plane, deal with any MX issues, etc. Then, I'd have some time to "organize my office", catch up on some emails/day trading, eat a snack or just chat with the crew and say hi to the Pax.
In the worst cases, that extra planned time saved my bacon on more than one occasion. Maybe parking was full so you had to drive to the god-awful back lot and pray a shuttle would be there. Maybe some idiot kid wanted to do mach-jesus on I95, crashes and causes a 10 mile backup. Maybe crew scheduling is dealing with a dumpster fire already, forget to assign a new captain and you have to call them and get the ball rolling. Any number of things can screw you 6 ways to Sunday if you're caught off guard.
On a lighter note, don't be afraid to hang with the crew. I am a relatively young guy compared to most of the captains I flew with. It made me a little more hesitant to see if they wanted to do anything. But I'd wager about 90% of them are always down to do something that isn't 'drink at the hotel bar'. Any time we had a decently long LAS overnight, I'd grab a car from hertz and we'd either hit up some really good off-strip restaurants or visit Red Rock canyon. It was a cost effective way to just hang out (could get a decent rental for ~$40-50) and considerably cheaper than Uber. Plus, midnight taco runs to Taqueria casa after getting off a last leg from hell are the best.
in the day and age of "quiet quitting" and "only doing what you're scheduled", this ain't the profession to do it.
If I knew an agent would be staffing the door (and my plane would be there), I'd always show 20 to 30 early. In the best cases, I was able to leisurely but thoroughly review the flight, check the plane, deal with any MX issues, etc. Then, I'd have some time to "organize my office", catch up on some emails/day trading, eat a snack or just chat with the crew and say hi to the Pax.
In the worst cases, that extra planned time saved my bacon on more than one occasion. Maybe parking was full so you had to drive to the god-awful back lot and pray a shuttle would be there. Maybe some idiot kid wanted to do mach-jesus on I95, crashes and causes a 10 mile backup. Maybe crew scheduling is dealing with a dumpster fire already, forget to assign a new captain and you have to call them and get the ball rolling. Any number of things can screw you 6 ways to Sunday if you're caught off guard.
On a lighter note, don't be afraid to hang with the crew. I am a relatively young guy compared to most of the captains I flew with. It made me a little more hesitant to see if they wanted to do anything. But I'd wager about 90% of them are always down to do something that isn't 'drink at the hotel bar'. Any time we had a decently long LAS overnight, I'd grab a car from hertz and we'd either hit up some really good off-strip restaurants or visit Red Rock canyon. It was a cost effective way to just hang out (could get a decent rental for ~$40-50) and considerably cheaper than Uber. Plus, midnight taco runs to Taqueria casa after getting off a last leg from hell are the best.
#18
Do the best job you can where you are now. Your record and experience will provide benefits in the future, some of which you did not plan for. The bridges burned in aviation are long and well documented. It’s a small world.
Understand that there are no shortcuts, and nobody owes you—also nothing is guaranteed except the engines will quit with no gas in the tanks.
A poor quality FO will likely be a poor quality captain. This goes with my first point.
When it comes to the jobs, you won’t get a job you don’t apply for. Dont expect to be hired at the bare minimums, but get yourself to the mins as quickly as possible (with an excellent record) so that you can start applying when you meet them.
Show up on time and look like a pro. Keep your logbook neat and accurate if in book form; be able to prove your experience (first phase of an interview). If your records look like dogsh!t it throws a red flag.
Save your money and start your retirement fund early. Your medical is what will determine your retirement date, so make better health choices now.
Again, being well qualified is more than technique and systems knowledge. There is always someone better than you—aviation can be humbling, a hard lesson for some. Start now.
Understand that there are no shortcuts, and nobody owes you—also nothing is guaranteed except the engines will quit with no gas in the tanks.
A poor quality FO will likely be a poor quality captain. This goes with my first point.
When it comes to the jobs, you won’t get a job you don’t apply for. Dont expect to be hired at the bare minimums, but get yourself to the mins as quickly as possible (with an excellent record) so that you can start applying when you meet them.
Show up on time and look like a pro. Keep your logbook neat and accurate if in book form; be able to prove your experience (first phase of an interview). If your records look like dogsh!t it throws a red flag.
Save your money and start your retirement fund early. Your medical is what will determine your retirement date, so make better health choices now.
Again, being well qualified is more than technique and systems knowledge. There is always someone better than you—aviation can be humbling, a hard lesson for some. Start now.
#19
As an up and coming aviator, I am interested to learn from others experiences. If I don’t have to make all the same mistakes as someone else, I will be happy. What are some of the things current captains wish their new first officers knew? What do you wish you had known before your first airline pilot job? What are current pilots lacking when they get to the airlines that should be remedied?


