For who, themselves?

Narrowbodies like the E190 (it IS a narrowbody...) or like Busses?

we're not getting narrowbodies...these are the same people who still think MCO is coming back as a base...

Rumor is Airbus / 737 narrow body.. dunno for who .. I would assume that would only happen through the acquisition of another airline.

Time for Kiloalpha to start naming sources. I call Bullchips.

Bryan Bedford.. how's that for a source

Not very good...

Bedford wants you to drink that kool-aid. These are the kind of things that have to be announced publicly, cuase this company is traded on the market. That would be insider info = not good.

Somebody on the major forum gave the NWA pilots a lot of lip about "just giving away scope clause"to the company. And my reply was they did give away to much but they did not have much choise (BK judge). Then somebody did not like it when I said that the reigonal pilots need to do there share on scope and not accept any more large jets. You need to tell the company NO when they say they want you to come up with a pay rate. Tell them to stick the airplanes, you would rather mainline got them. If you want a better shot at getting to a major someday soon.
IM

I'm all for saying that.. it's the RAH lifers I worry about. I flew with a guy the other day (lifer) who was all about bigger aircraft :rolleyes:

Yup, I was going to say that. The lifers are the ones two worry about. I have a very good friend who is a RAH lifer. He'll take the bigger plane and does not care what he is doing to the rest of the industry. It is a pay raise to him.

I think we all need to face a bit of reality.... most mainline carriers are moving to larger and larger equipment on longer and HEAVY routes. Using "jet" carriers to fill in for higher frequency and smaller destinations...that business model is NOT going away.... We may not like it.... but those are the trends....

As for lifers... those who look down upon the pilot who has decided to make a carrier at one of these carriers need to stop being snobish and realize that flying for a so called Legacy carrier is NOT what everyone wants or needs or can do. different strokes for different folks. If there was not and had not been a model to evolve the so called old regionals into what they are today you guys griping about bigger jets would still be flying jetstreams and shorts on 8 leg days......

YES push for better pay and work rules.... but if we as a pilot group start dictating what equipment our carriers should fly that is just plain crazy. As a pilot group we should hold the company to the regs and contract... and in exchange the work groups need to do what is asked of them within that scope. I have friends who are lifers at AE and they like it there... different strokes for different folks... and if AE, AMR and AA decide they should fly bigger equipment... okay. Flame away.

And what is wrong with that? He's in a different situation and it is perfectly reasonable for him to feel that way - you would too.

Excellent point, HercDriver...thanks for the post.

The industry is just changing - remember that the only constant in this mess we call life is change. We're not really losing mainline Jobs, those jobs are just being transferred...Legacies are dropping domestic routes in favor of expanding International.

I don't think too many pilot groups are going to line up to tell their employers "We're not taking on bigger jets." You couldn't really do that even if you wanted to. You can't just go on strike because you don't like the way your company is growing. Regionals fly what they fly based on the scope of their mainline partners, not the other way around. I wish everyday the 170/175/700/900 were on mainline property. But they're not...and it's not because RAH/Comair/ASA/SkyWest/PSA/Eagle/anyone else said "Man, I'd really like to stay at a regional longer and fly some bigger jets."

No need to flame anyone. Not all people have the same opinion, that fine. Trust me I'm far from snobish and I'm not looking down on a lifer at a reigonal. It's not what I want to do, but if they are happy good for them. My problem is a lot of these senior guys are willing to work at pay rates that are a pay raise for them but under cut the majors flying the same size A/C.
This does not help the majors keep airplanes and create more higher paying jobs.

As far as flying bigger jets instead of Jetstreams or shorts thats fine as long as you are getting paid well for it. Regional pay has not increased as fast as aircraft size has. This does not help the industry.

I don't think it is that crazy to dictate what airplanes your company flies. If your company is not willing to pay you industry average or better, tell them you don't want them. I could be wrong, but didn't Delta refuse to fly the 777 because of pay rates.

IM

No one said strike. Those planes (170,175,700,900) are at those airlines (RAH,Comair,ASA, Skywest,PSA,Eagle) because there pilot groups agreed to pay rates for them. It's usually the senior guys that negotiate the contracts. And they don't intend to move on to a major. So they see it as there way to get more money. And don't care that it may affect mainline flying. I think PSA refused to take the 190's at the pay rates the company was offering. And I think those planes went to mainline instead.
IM

Ummmm at RAH the 175's pay much more. I showed in a previous post where they were right in line with pay from the regionals up to the majors. I have yet to have anyone show otherwise. Not saying I like it. I don't think anything over 50 seats should be regional but I am saying that our 175 pay is not out of line. I can prove how it's where it currently should be. It's up to someone else to prove why it isn't.

Well, when 175 FOs make the same as 145 FOs, I'd have to go ahead and say something's not quite right there...

I'm not picking on any one airline or pilot group. So please don't take it personal. My opinion is RAH 175's pay rates may be industry avg. or better. But they are very low compared to what the majors got for flying the same size A/C before there BK contracts. Where do you think management at the majors came up with the pay rates they offered the pilots? So RAH and the other reigonal pay rates did not set the bar high. They set the bar low and that's exactly where management at the majors aimed for and got.

Has anyone checked out JetBlue's payrates for the 190?? They're not paying much more than what the Regional guys are making...

This whole "big-RJ" thing isn't just the RJ Pilot's faults...

Here's a thought:
Is CHQ going to cease to exist once all of the 50-seaters are gone? Will CHQ start flying bigger planes once our contracts with AA & Continental are up, and we don't have those scope clauses to worry about?

The 175 payrate at RAH is equal to or less than a buck better than AWAC's concessionary 146 payrate once you get beyond the 6th or 7th year. Well, for captains anyway. FOs? Entirely different story.

The 175s are there and it isn't the fault of RAH pilots. What will be the fault of their pilots is if they fail via bargaining to get work rules and hourly rates at or near the top of the industry to fly them, and if they don't pay their FOs at least 60% of captain rates for an airplane that large.

i personally don't want a industry leading contract....who in their right mind wants to be at the top and end up like comair? get the pay close to the top, add some work rules, tighten up the language and call it done.

After Bedford and Heller continue to pocket millions off your backs?

Way to fight for what you rightfully deserve...:rolleyes:

Bedford and Heller have taken a small company and grown it at a very significant rate. Out doing most other regionals. Our pay is not dragging the industry down and we have good work rules. Some complain just to hear themselves but overall we have a great company. Better than most. You can knock it all you want and talk Air Wisconsin up all you'd like but with the playing field the same one has continued to grow by leaps and bounds. If Air Wisconsin had the same as opportunities RAH has I would have applied there, but it doesn't. Yes our FO pay isn't the highest. Don't go looking around or you might find that trend at most places. We are currently in negotiations and with our company making money hand over fist there is only one thing that's going to happen to our contracts and that's get better.

What are you smoking? RAH has three, well actually 4, certificates already for that exact reason. Anything bigger than 50 seats is on another certificate. If they needed flying with bigger seat counts they'd use one of the other certificates. Will we start flying bigger planes once our contracts with AA & Continental are up? Fly them for who? Are you saying you expect CHQ to magically jump from 50 seats up to 70+, violating other people's scope so we'd lose their business, when they could simply use the Republic or Shuttle tickets? Don't forget that once again if it's above 50 seats it wouldn't be on the CHQ ticket. We aren't simply going to just start flying 170/175s for AA and Continental. Scope is on their end, not ours, and with them in negotiations and the company making money hand over fist it isn't changing.

The thing that Bedford is currently grinding his wheels on is thinking about starting his own "airline" that's part of skyteam using 175s to try and bypass Continental scope. How do I know this? He said it when he came to Columbus for the meetings in the crew room. Whether or not this is possible is beyond me as you'd have to get your hands on some pretty serious inside info. Regardless of what happens CHQ is completely out of the picture with that. I think RAH even has a 737 laying around somewhere so no telling what they've got their mind on doing.

I don't, nor have I ever, knocked RAH or its pilot group.

I've said on more than one occasion that I know literally hundreds of RAH pilots and that I applied there all of 2006. Despite being a former intern (who busted my butt for CHQ and got good reviews) who kept in contact with folks there and being current on the CL-65 I couldn't get an interview. I wanted to work there because I lived in IND and wanted it or SDF as a domicile, and would have left AWAC without hesitation improve my quality of life. I eventually moved out east and when I did RAH quickly faded from my employment radar.

I know that RAH has a good pilot contract and I know the circumstances around its ratification better than most, likely including yourself. I support you folks 100% in your negotiations and will walk a picket line with you if it comes to it...but your own EXCO Chairman has stated he doesn't think you'll get trip and duty rigs and doesn't want to spend negotiating capital to get them. That, combined with pilots who think their compensation will cause the company to shrink, does not bode well for your negotiations. With as much leverage as your pilot group has with the E-jet product, I hope my doubts are proven WAAAAY wrong.

Besides, the playing field is NOT level between my company and yours. RAH is a publicly traded company while AWAC is privately held. The returns required to make a private investment worthwhile are far greater than those required to keep shareholders satisfied.

This isn't a "my company is better than yours!" argument, so don't make it out to be such.

Chautauqua
Republic
Shuttle America
#4????

It's early in the game for the EXCO to say what we are and aren't getting. The union board of ours has something like an 84% attendence rate and nearly everyone has already agreed to vote no on anything without trip/duty rigs. The pilot group won't budge until they get it. The current contract isn't bad and we have no reason to settle for anything less than trip/duty rigs. The thing this group needs more than anything else is for Gene Sowell(spelling) to get fired from teamsters and get new representation. He's the only jack@ss I've ever known that could take something so black and white as tihs and lose the grievance about me getting 401k matching my first year which is obviously less than 6 years.

There is another certificate that was bought a few years back. Supposidly they make one flight a year on it to keep it current. I can't remember the name off the top of my head. I thought Sun Country but that airline is still active. I'll try and get the name of it.

I just threw up a little in my mouth when I read this. That's the kind of leadership I'm sure the union is looking for from their Captains. Also, if you are interested in working at UPS, could you please PM me your name so I can put in a negative recommendation. I would hate to have an attitude like that voting here when we negotiate our next contract.

The lifers (who actually are choosing to be) comprise probably 15% of the list, 20% at most. They won't control the way this contract plays out. Also, I personally know 3 guys that are in the top 60 that are trying to get on at UPS. I think you'd be surprised at the actual number of lifers there.

I'm really glad that you're not negotiating this contract for me.

TD, you should know better. We've got ok work rules and subprime FO pay on a contract that was negotiated 4 years ago. Remember, anything less than a 15% pay raise over 5 years is actually LOSING you money based on inflation. Our company IS making money hand over fist and it's time they start spreadin' the wealth the the people who got them there...and it sure as hell wasn't just BB and his altar boy WH.

The fourth certificate is carribean sun. They were a dash 8 operation out of puerto rico competing with american eagle (executive) in the caribean flying to all the islands down there.

I'm not saying we don't deserve more bro. It's all a process in time. What I am saying is that we aren't getting screwed with our pants on like some try and make it out to be and we aren't ruining the industry with our 175 pay. I showed in another post where it's right on target with $ per seat. All of that is based on captain pay however. FO wise yes we can use better but we can't exactly complain about it either when compairing it to the rest of the regional industry. There are a few with better and a lot with worse. This negotiation we're in will definitly be interesting. I'm sticking a steak in anything that doesn't have duty rigs. BB has done good things though. We've all got jobs because of them. I could be a fool but I honestly think he cares. I understand the economics of inflation and the hurting pay scale. I want better true, however when aiming at things I want in the contract the FO payscale isn't top of the list for me. That's just my opinion on things but I don't see FO pay bad enough, compared to the industry, where it tops my list. Rig or die!

On another note what do people's bids look like for Oct? I went from 76hrs and 15 days off to 78hrs and 12 days off. WTF! Guess the new pairing guy they hired from Mesa is up and running.

That's it. Hrmm for some reason I thought they had a 737. Rumors!

Is there any proof they actually bought that certificate? There is no information about such a transaction in RJET's SEC filings that I could find.

Why?

Do you not think you're worth 60% of what a captain makes?

i dont know about the sec stuff but i ran into a guy who worked for caribean sun and is now at chq. His managment said when they went bankrupt that RAH was buying there certificate and that it would be a good chance to get back home if they didnt want to go to their competitor that forced them into bankruptcy, Eagle. Also after that aquisition was when SJU STT and STX plates showed up in our jepps and rumors started about getting the 170's etops certified.

RAH does not own any part of Carribean Sun. Wexford owns them.

SJU, STT, and STX showed up because Shuttle flys to the Carib. from Atlanta.

ETOPS is not required for any flying that the 170 can do. You can go to any island in the Carribean and be within legal distance of an alternate on one engine.