Colts07

First post here. I love the forum, lots of great info. So here goes my story...I was a prior enlisted crew chief on A-10's at an Air National Guard unit in the Midwest while I went to college full time. After taking almost 6 years to graduate because of 2 trips to the sandbox I began interviewing at guard units for a pilot slot. I was selected by a unit out west to fly F-16's. I went to officer training, got commissioned, then headed off to Mississippi for UPT. I started out flying the T-37 and did really well. I finished that phase of training in the top 1/4 of my class. From there I went on to fly the T-38 and did well initially. I flew a good jet, studied my tail off, and even soloed the thing half a dozen times. My troubles began after I completed my formation solo ride and began tactical formation training. For one reason or another I just couldn't "get it." Again, I always flew a good jet but had troubles with some of the admin areas which led to some SA issues due to task saturation. Needless to say this threw up all kinds of red flags because of me being fighter bound. I ended up busting my formation check which eventually led me going through a commander review process. The outcome of the review was me being eliminated from training. I fought to stay in training so I could go on to fly herks or tankers but wasn't able to because the syllabus doesn't allow a retrack back to T-1's and I wasn't quite close enough to graduating to be allowed to finish T-38's then go on to heavies. My IP's and commander's at my UPT base and my guard unit fought to allow me to go heavies but the powers that be just didn't see it the same way. So after all the years of hard work and after completing 10 of the 12 months of UPT I became a UPT washout. It absolutely devastated me not to be able to graduate with my classmates and go on to serve as a pilot in the guard in any capacity...I even volunteered to fly UAV's. The unit that hired me released me back to my original unit where I was enlisted and I now serve with them as a maintainence officer(now I'm a 1st Lt). I've spent this past year instructing and I'm ready to make the jump to the regionals. I'm interested mostly in Republic, Expressjet and Comair. I have 1200TT, 250 multi, 150 turbine. I know that folks who wash out of UPT tend to have a negative perception. Could you guys and gals give me some advise on how to address this issue on a resume and during an interview. Will a regional even want to hire someone in my situation? I know the training with a regional can be tough but after surviving 10 months of UPT I believe I'm up to the task. I'm ready to close that chapter on my life and begin my civilian career. Sorry for the long thread but I wanted to give all the details. Thanks for the help.

uvmflier

Hi Colts. From what I know UPT is incredibly intense. Just getting into UPT is a feat in itself. I applied to like five units and was interviewed for only one for just one slot. I was selected as an alternate (a Comair f/o beat me to the primary slot). If you were training for an F-16 unit that says a lot about your background, AFOQT's, and personal qualities. As anybody knows in the ANG fighter units are especially harder to get into than the T-1 tracks. I'm sure the guys/gals on here will have some good feedback as to interview pointers for this issue. In the meantime keep your head up you're an Officer in the ANG thats a lot to be proud of. What happened with UPT doesn't define you.

Airsupport

sorry to hear about that.. like uvmflier said what happend in upt doesn't define you... a buddy of mine wasn't able to get through the tactical formation flying either. he just had a hard time getting close to the other guys. he trusted his own flying, but didn't trust the other guys, and that can be bad in combat. he didn't have any flying experience before going in, so that made it a little tougher. did you have any flying experience (more than 250 hours) before starting. anyway if you made it that far into upt, then you will be fine at the regionals. good luck.

7576FO

A bud of mine had a sort of similar situation. He got on with a regional and now is a CA at a major airline.

Attitude overcomes everything. Always be honest in an interview. Be positive.
Get on with a good regional and apply everywhere.

You've got great experience. Any man who gets up after a failure is a man I wan't to fly with.

Best wishes.

rickair7777

There are plenty of military washouts in the civilian world. At your first job they may probe a little bit just to ensure that you didn't wash out for attitude reasons...don't get defensive. Just explain succinctly that you had problems with complex military manuevers, not basic airplane flying.

Long term you'll be fine...and stay in the guard so you can get a buddy hookup at FDX or wherever.

ghilis101

timing is everything. i went through upt 4 years ago when if you had a pulse you got your wings, that was right after 9/11 and they couldnt afford to wash guys out. now the mentality is different because the pipeline shrunk big time and the demand for pilots in the military is much lower.

you will be well AHEAD of your guard/reserve counterparts in my opinion. youll be at a regional by this fall, upgrade in 1-2 years, and be eligible for a major shortly after that.

your military buddies will be ahead of you in regards to pay, but youll blow them out of the water with flight time. you already have more flight time than i do in the military!

SharkyBN584

What do you mean by "admin areas that led to some SA issues"?

I would think you'd be fine as long as you were honest. It's especially helpful if the reasons you didn't make it through UPT have absolutely nothing to do with 121 flying (hence the above question). From what I'm reading, I don't think your ability to pass tactical formation flying is really gonna hurt ya

elcid88

This won't be a problem for you at all. Just be honest and up front. In a few years you will be with a major airline, and your buds from UPT will be calling you to get advice on the airlines. I have helped interview at a major airline and this was pretty common. Hang in there and keep flying. You'll be fine.

Three Green

Years ago, Kit Draby's magazine did an article on upt washouts, see if you can do a search on his websites. All in all, the article was positive for those who washed out in training. They were in some cases flying for the majors. It is no different than if you washed out of regional trining except you had it a lot tougher. Be honest and upfront and most regionals would be glad to have you. Good luck.

Colts07

I experienced both sides of this first hand. In the near year that I was there I saw guys failing out of training for many reasons,including academics, and still being reinstated and allowed to get their wings. Towards the end of the year though more and more folks were getting removed from training and sent home. There were two other guys who washed out of T-38's at the same time as me...almost unheard of up to that point.

By admin areas I'm referring to the overall management of a 2-ship formation in a tactical environment. Tactical formation flying in much more involved than regular formation flying. I simply had trouble flying my jet and maintaining formation integrity while doing tactical maneuvers. I did better when I was the wingman but really struggled when I was lead and had to manage the other guy as well.

Thanks for the responses so far. My attitude was always my best quality and I was given letters from my flight commander and squadron commander stating that I was a great student who worked hard and was positive but was unable to finish the program because of the constraints of the syllabus. Are there any RAH, XJet, or Comair folks who can recommend how to present this on the resume to HR and during the interview. Any other advise for those companies would be great also. Thanks for everyone taking the time to help.