I'm glad you took the time to instruct for a while, it will make you a better airline pilot.

Und
 

There was a guy at Horizon Air who came from UND and only had 290 hours of total time. 50 of those hours were in a Frasca simulator. He was arrogant, fat, didn't study in ground school and slept in class.

He went on to ace the simulator and had no problems whatsoever on the line. Others came and had thousands of hours of flight time as CFI's and single pilot night cargo and stunk.

It might be best to have time as a CFI before going to a regional. It also would be best for the company if you came with a type rating in hand and a few thousand hours in type. However the only thing that matters really in the end is what is best for you.

Getting there as quick as you can is all that matters in the long run.

SkyHigh

CoryK, you're going on my buddy list! Just read your post on page 6 and liked it. Back in the day when an individual had to instruct for 2-3 years JUST to go to a place like Mesa, Great Lakes, etc. because SKW, ACA, ASA, COEX, etc. had mins in the 2500 to 3000 area, and that wasn't even competetive. Initially, when I started instructing 6 years ago, I had the same attitude as shanejj. But the experience, patience, and respect I earned in my 2 years "doing touch and go's" with PVT, INST, COMM and MULTI-COMM students has molded me into a pretty well rounded individual, and pilot. I still enjoy flying, whether it's at work or in a 172, I still find it fun.

It's not for everybody. I was afraid that I'd be like some of my instructors too. Ticked off at the world, and bitter. Your job is what you make it. If you are ticked off at your job, chances are, you won't like it. If you want to make a difference, have fun, and have a good attitude, then do that. Right now, I'm teaching those 300+ hour pilots in the 120, some are good, some not so good. Same with the guys with 1000+ hours. Some instructed, some didn't. But that doesn't determine the outcome. Attitude does.

Congrats on your timing in the industry for everybody who's been able to work for company's like SKW, XJET, RAH etc. Flying a Turbo prop or Jet at a young age is a feat not many people have the ability or chance to do. But how that individual reaches their goal is their own concern. We eventually end up where we want to, and when that happens, who cares what you did to get there.

I'd say this is a bit of an exaggeration. :rolleyes:

I have been browsing around the regional section of this message board for quite some time now. I have posted a few times before but I will throw them out again. I started flying when I was 15 and am now 24. I am just now getting my multi and single commercial. I have 240 tt and 70 me.

A few months ago I wasnt even thinking about trying for a regional. Once my instructor started telling me the hiring times and I started doing some research I have found that I may have a chance at getting hired. To me this was a great opportunity. Why not try to get into the right seat of a regional?

I have done my share of research since then (even went to a job fair) and am learning quite a lot about the industry. I have a job that I can talk to several mainline and regional pilots about their thoughts on the low time guys. For the most part they have told me that I would be stupid not to try to get hired right now. But the other half of me says.... nah you should CFI first. Like most I think I am on the fence. I could go either way. I really really love the airlines. I have since I was a kid. I have been around airports and airplanes forever. I lost my medical my first year of college and I really didnt know what to do with myself or my life for that matter after that. It took me 4 years of constant calls to the FAA to no avail. I just waited it out with constant visits to the doctor and finally in 06 got my medical back with no restrictions. I currently hold a first class (plus all the rest of the crap that airlines require). So this situation right there makes me more eager to get in while the time is right.

I dont even know what I am trying to say here. But I do know that I love to fly. Yes, it has been my dream to fly an airliner. But I also will never give up 172 flying either.

It seems to me that alot of guys on here really like to complain about which airline does this and which airline does that and whether to commute or not yada yada yada. I cant fathom the fact of why they complain so much. You are getting paid to fly. Yes it may not be the best pay in the world, but its still a job, and not a 9 to 5 office job either. There are worse ways to make a living and trust me where I am from, first year FO pay would be more than enough for some people. (I know I will get ragged for this statement.)

I know alot of that really didnt make much sense, but mainly my point is that I am a low timer with a great attitude and I would love a chance to prove myself in RJ training or even tprops for that matter. I know in my head and my heart that I could do it.

Thats all. Thanks for listening to my rant.

If you spent some time as a CFI, and built up your experience level, you'd be a better pilot for it and you'd have more to offer your Capt when you get to the airlines.

Whether that's important or not is up to you.

Hey man, jump pilots know their stuff.

I wish it was
 

I wish it was an exaggeration. At the time I was teaching Basic Indoctrination at QX and I saw everyones records. The guy only had the bare minimum for a commercial license plus 50 hours of sim time during an internship. That was 7 years ago.



Skyhigh

That is the dumbest statement I have seen on here. Granted al lot of people can't use the rudder but tell anyone who has flown tailwheel stick and rudder and aerobatics that they don't know how to use the rudder and they are gonna laugh in your face, and the whole deal about the amount or hours and taking the airline job or being a CFI all have to with the person and their training. I agree being a CFI helps with expierence and feel everyone should do it but I have also seen the 300 hour pilot without a CFI that has been more quilified then a 1400 hour CFI. Like I said it is all come down to training and that persons ability.

I am one of those tailwheel, stick-and-rudder, aerobatic guys. Learn sarcasm when you see it... :rolleyes: It is true thesedays, most people don't know what the rudder is for.

[quote=FSUpilot;242882]

It seems to me that alot of guys on here really like to complain about which airline does this and which airline does that and whether to commute or not yada yada yada. I cant fathom the fact of why they complain so much. You are getting paid to fly. Yes it may not be the best pay in the world, but its still a job, and not a 9 to 5 office job either. There are worse ways to make a living and trust me where I am from, first year FO pay would be more than enough for some people. (I know I will get ragged for this statement.)

quote]

Ok, I'll rag on you. The reason people complain about pay, QOL at regionals is because people like you would do anything to get that rightseat job, and the regionals know that.

i agree with whisker.

Well I would agree that I learned the most from being a cfi, I only gave 300 hours of dual, and I was pretty much done, I did not like it anymore.

Got a job, and have more than double my expreince, and could not put a number value on what I have learned that being a cfi could have never taught me.

I never got the high altitude aerodynamics, high alt weather, weather radar, or a hell of a lot of busy ATC.
I am sure there is more I have learned, but that is some of what sticks out that I was missing being a CFI.

I really do not see the problem with 250 hour guys getting right seat jobs. If the pass they check ride, then in my opinion they have earned the right to make it or wash out on the line.

I know it is possible for a 250 hour guy to go online and have an engine fire, or something else bad, or god forbid crash and hurt someone. At the same time it is not likely that it will happen, and x number of months down the road they will be alright pilots for the airplane they are flying.

It is not the 250 hr guys fault for getting hired by the company they work for.

I think if there is going to be a big problem with this, then a few years down the road you will see an industry correction to the problem if it is there.

I am not going to knock someone for they type of flying that they are doing or want to do and when.

Reeves

Get the 121 Job for the turbine time and build your seniority... Then instruct about 10-20 hours a month on the side. Just be sure you do it legally.

Save what money? The $10-15 an hour at 60-70 hours a month, maybe if you are still living with your parents. I do agree that you can gain good expierence flight instructing, but telling someone to instruct till they have 1000tt because they will be a better FO just simply not true. IF that person was going to end up being a good FO, they would be just fine at 500tt, or god forbid even 300tt. 6 months of 1.5 hour flights in a practice area and watching someone do an instrument approach while you stare out the window at the runway in a class D airport is not going to prepare you for the airline world. If you feel comfortable with your flying abilities you would be stupid not to take advantage of a job offer. Do you feel like you can shoot an approach at twice the speed you normally do in your part 91 plane with an engine out, followed by a single engine go around? If you think you can, there is no reason not to take that job offer. However, if you don't and you fail out of groundschool, you will wish you were more prepared since your only choice will be Mesa after that.

In the end, its a personal decision, don't listen to all of these people who think you should flight instruct just beacause they had to "pay thier dues", and in order to feel like they didn't waste a couple years of thier lives they have to tell every young person interested in aviation not to risk the lives of 50-75 ppl because you didn't practice it a million times in a 172. If you are confident enough to think you will make it through training with no problems, don't waste any time. Seniority isn't everything... its the only thing.

ROTE!!! Cha-Ching!

I agree! Its not about flight time..

hahahaha,, as opposed to the 1500tt vfr skydiving pilot...

I made 35 an hour as a CFI, usually about 500 - 700 per week. Yes it is a pay cut.

So how often do you 61 it in a week?

"don't listen to all of these people who think you should flight instruct just beacause they had to "pay thier dues"

Don't listen to people that think the experience base 300 hours gives you should be good enough to be airline pilot.

I am not getting into the "how low is too low" debate.... but for those who are going right from the commercial checkride to an RJ, here are a few things I learned before I was offered a regional job..

As a CFI:

British students buy the beer the day of thier first solo
It takes 12 hours to earn 8 hours of pay
How to quickly judge the quality of the pilot sitting next to me
How to recover from unusual attitudes (student induced) in VMC and IMC
Thunderstorms "in the area" does not prohibit all flight

Flying freight:
Stay on time
the FAA may approve of the CG calculation method I just used, but that
doesnt mean some bonehead didnt sneak an anvil into the tail
How the plane "sits" on the ramp says a lot more about CG than any calculation
Planes will fly over gross (see bonehead above)
Stay on time
One lost flight will wipe out a week's worth of profit
Stay on time
Nav lights are often repaired by a good rap on the lens
"It failed in flight"
How to make REAL decisions

As an air ambulance pilot:
30 year old autopilots fly to private pilot standards
Giving a safety brief to a mother whose child (the patient) may die, is useless
The majority of people are afraid of flying
Many passengers think pilots control the weather
How to use an MEL in the real world
How to communicate with the mechanics about squaks
How to communicate with ATC to get the best service possible
When to use Pan Pan in real life
Minimum fuel is not an emergency and can be declared at takeoff





There are three types of pilots:
Those who think they know everything
Those who KNOW they know everything
And those who are smart enough to know they are still learning

Good Post!!

flyjsh....awesome post!

If some people would really read and understand your post, that could go along way in terms of defining when you MIGHT be ready to try out for a 121 job.

flight time has no bearing

Thanks folks, glad you got it. Anyone care to forward a resume for me?
This is why I ask:
http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/sh...ad.php?t=17712

Rudder
 

After leaving part 91 your feet are on the floor most of the time. Who needs rudder skills? If I recall it was a rudder jockey who put an Airbus in the drink over NYC a few years back.

If you want to fly a Cessna 185 in the bush then take the time to learn how to use the rudder. In most modern jets your feet are on the floor and hands are in your lap.

If your dream is to fly airplanes then you shouldn't become an airline pilot.

SkyHigh

"If your dream is to fly airplanes then you shouldn't become an airline pilot."

Lord have mercy. That is just wrong in soooo many ways.

Skyhigh, I think you really enjoy making outlandish statements and then seeing how people at an aviation career forum respond. You funny guy.

pretty sure he put it into the middle of a neighborhood. just another facet of the inaccuracies of your posts :p jk sky!

Well Its true
 

I just don't think that flying big airliners really relates much to hand flying skills.

Most modern jets are fully automated and come complete with auto feather, rudder dampeners and flight directors. The AP goes on at 1000' and goes off outer marker inbound.

Flights are always made in the IFR environment under ATC control and end with the same ILS. Approaches are flown down to the same runway that is reproduced at almost every major airport all over the country.

Sure, occasionally there is some stick jockeying on final during a strong cross wind but for the most part it is like a factory, pilots stamp out the same landing using the same call outs and skills time after time.

Real stick and rudder or attitude instrument flying skills are not needed hardly at all. Airline pilots are out there proving that fact every day. Put most of them in a Cessna 172 and they would kill themselves in short order.

SkyHigh

Show me where I said it takes stick and rudder skills to fly an airliner? I believe the point I made is that it DOESN'T take any. That is why I can't stand low timers that think they are awesome because they fly a sexy jet.

My Mistake
 

Thanks for clearing that up.

SkyHigh

Sky,

You said, "Most modern jets are fully automated and come complete with auto feather, rudder dampeners and flight directors."

Um, forgive my piston driven ignorance, but just what does auto feather do on a jet (turbo fan?)... maybe it ejects the core????

Yeah, and it's a yaw damper, silly. And really has noting to do with making your point that pilots don't fly airplanes. Do you know what a yaw damper does?

On my Capts IOE the checkairman had me turn off the autopilot, flight director, and auto throttles, and do a visual into Philly. That's one of the things an airline pilot needs to be able to do. You know, we can still go without the FMC, the autopilot, the flight director, a yaw damper, the autothrottles, ect. (just not all at the same time). You can't tell the Chief Pilot, I can't go cause the autopilots defered and I'm not comfortable with hand flying. That would be a laugh. I can hand fly the jet as well as you can hand fly your 150. The automation just makes it so I don't have to all the time.

"Put most of them in a Cessna 172 and they would kill themselves in short order."

Unsubstantiated gross exaggeration. I know this not to be true from personal experience.

Not when I am flying. The jet I fly also does not do a very good job of intercepting a localizer despite the fact that it was built in the 90s with a glass cockpit. I'm almost always hand flying by that point or earlier.

Like when my pitch trim had a runaway a notch up and then failed there last month, during rotation? Just like the sim buddy -- arms full forward holding the yoke down to keep it from pitching up and eventually stalling. You gonna train a monkey to do that maneuver and keep it +/- 100 feet for NYC departure 'cause there's inbound traffic right above you?

Either this is written sarcastically, or you finally have lost the last shred of credibility that was left in your screename in my eyes.

Anc
 

At one time I was a flight istrutor in ANC and commonly was approached by 747, DC-10, smaller airline and military pilots for a check out in the Cessna 172.

It had been many years since these guys had flown a small plane and they wanted to be able to rent a plane to take themselves on scenic flights.

Most were worse than if the had no prior flight experience at all. Not a singe one of them was able to check out in one flight. Most gave up and the few who did get a sign off had problems.

One DC-10 captain looked at the ANC sectional with amazement. He claimed that he had never seen a VFR chart before and previously didn't know they even had such a silly thing. He was ex-military and claimed to only have 5 hours in a piston plane.

In addition I also worked at several air taxis where retired ex-airline pilots attempted to work as line pilots and quickly gave up much to the relief of everyone else.

I have a friend who is a DC-10 captain and even though he works a full schedule finds it difficult to stay current with 3 landings within 90 days due to the long haul nature of his job. Skills fade over time under those conditions.

You do not need to actually have piloting skills to be an airline pilot.

SkyHigh

Yaw Dampener
 

Oh yea!! It is called the Yaw dampener and I remember that if your plane has one that your feet stay firmly planted on the floor. In fact after the NYC Airbus crash we were all reminded that the rudder did not need any inputs from us unless there was an engine failure... Feet on the floor...

Skyhigh

Pilots Need A Real Wage
 

Pilots need more than just enough money to be able to afford to breath and exist.

They require wages sufficient enough to be able to fund a middle class lifestyle, self funded retirement, pay off school loans and save for offspring college costs. Anything less is irresponsible and a vote cast towards lowering wages in the future.

We all love to fly and that seems to serve as most of the compensation pilots get these days.

If your career doesnt pass the stupid test then it isn't a real job but a hobby that covers some of its own costs.


SkyHigh

Again, completely wrong.

The transport category jet that I fly needs to be handflown following an engine failure and everything gets trimmed manually. This is a jet of the 1990s.

Right
 

I though I mentioned that you need to use the rudder during an engine failure? Aside from that it is mostly feet on the floor. Nothing like flying a Cessna 185 or even a 150 for that matter.

SkyHigh