Low Time Regionals
 

I noticed PSA, Piedmont, and TSA all have very low minimum times. I know these companies are nothing like Republic or Eagle but as far as working for them is it an OK job? Also would it make more sense to flight instruct to build up time and try to start out at Eagle or Republic as opposed to starting at one of the forementioned and then moving on to another airline?

Use the search function.
Yes flight instructing is better. Ask any captain that has to fly with 300 hour clowns.

Play nice
 

Play nice..... :)

He is Absoultlyfricking right. These wonders cant even talk on the Radio.:rolleyes:

Unless you instruct in a busy airspace, they will never learn to talk on radio until they step into the regional world.

While we are at it.
 

Why not also wait till you have 2000 hours and a type rating as well?

Captains make the bigger bucks in part to the fact that they are also mentors and instructors of their FOs.

I am sure that it is much nicer to have fully trained and highly experienced FO's so they can fall asleep in the seat however times as they are assure that captains will have to work a little harder.

My advise is to go for it if there is a job being offered no matter how much time you have. Low timers might have to face a few frowns and short tempers from their captains but in short time they will be up to speed.

It is much better for the low timer than wasting time as a CFI to go strait to a regional if it is being offered, and a pain for the captain. In the end you will only be cheating yourself if you choose the long road.

SkyHigh

I dont know about you but when the shiat hits the fan, I rather have a competent FO with experience on hand than a 800hr vfr skydiving pilot sitting next to me.
I remember when the regionals were asking for 1500tt min...

I don't know how many times I have said this.....
Flying (airline or GA) is not all about getting there as fast as possible. Flying is about being a good, confident, but mostly a SAFE pilot. People who are constantly trying to "get there" will never be happy in what they do. Get a private, fly for a while as a private pilot. When you feel that you have fulfilled that calling, move on to instrument, etc, etc, etc... I value every second I spent in a c150 in the hot, humid Memphis summers. I got some very good experience as a CFI. I had my first engine failure as a CFI. I am glad I had my first emergency when all I had was a student's life, and my own in my hands, not 70 other peoples'. Somebody who is constantly wanting to take shortcuts (not building time) to "get to the next level" has no business in the cockpit, regardless of the current state of the industry.
Become a CFI, build some time, get some experience. Do this for the safety of others, do it for future captains, and if nothing else, do it for self-fulfillment. You will then make you next career move knowing that you have the skillset and the experience to do it to your greatest potential.

BTW, building some time doesn't mean 1500 hours, but it is surly more then 300, or even 500. My personal minimum was 1000/100 before I applied anywhere. Turned out I has 1200/200 before I sent out any applications. Set a personal minimum. If after only 400 hours you are feeling burnt out on flying small planes, perhaps a career in aviation isn't for you.

i'd say get on as soon as u can, 121 turbine time is more valuable than 91time in a 152

Huh? CFI time is wasted time? You've GOT to be frickin kidding me. Oh yeah, I forgot. This is the age of ADHD, of instant gratification. Don't earn your knowledge, which incidentally may save your life some day. Just take the quickest shortcut you can. Go upgrade as soon as possible at the bottom feeder of the month.

I truly feel sorry for you if this is how you really feel.
Do you have any pride whatsoever? Flying is not all about crudentials and turbine time. People like you are what bring this industry down. This profession should be reserved for true aviators, not guys with turbine time in a logbook and an internal reccomendation a major.

800hrs or 1500hrs as a skydive pilot makes no difference....

1000hrs or 2000 as a 172 instructor makes no difference....

My point is.... When the shait hits the fan, it comes down to your knowledge of the airplane and how well you fly it, not how many hours you spent watching a instrument student fly appoaches.

Not completely true.
When $hit hits the fan, it is about having the experience and confidence to:
1.) Not freak the hell out.
2.) Diagnose the problem and fix it.
When somebody has all the knowledge of the airplane in the world, but only 300 total time, they might not have the experience and confidence to deal with an abnormal or emergency situation. Generally, the best way to gauge a person's experience level is by total time.

Oh and then there is this. Your comment about 152 time not being revelent, that is wrong. An airplane is an airplane, basic trainer or passenger jet, it doesn't matter. They are both subject to the exact same set of laws and aerodynamics.

Knowing the airplane through and through is standard practice whether you have 200 or 2000 hours whether it's a Cessna or a CRJ. It is not a replacement for experience gained. You are wrong, experience makes a difference. Time spent "watching" a student is time spent learning how to make safe decisions. I feel bad for the people in the back of an airplane with a pilot who has a mindset which doesn't value experience.

THANK YOU!!!:D

I agree with you...
1)When it comes to freaking out, total time does not reflect your ability to handle high stress situations.
2) As i said... system knowledge will help you diagnose a lot of problems.

I never compared a 300hr guy with a 2000 hr guy... I am saying there comes a point when as a CFI when your learning curve flattens out.. Therefore my comment on 1000hrs vs 2000 hrs....

After all... you can fly 5000 hrs with no problems or 1000 with a couple emergencies...

And yeah... I did instruct for 2 years.

low timers bad?
 

For everyone who is bagging on the low time guys, what say you to the men and women flying for the majors or retired who were hired on back in the late 70's and 80's...or even prior, who had a commercial (no multi) instrument and were hired on with places like TWA? Tell me they're horrible pilots now that they are managers at a bunch of airlines. I think every person is different as to their ability to make decisions and experience can be a factor, but not always flying experience per say.

THANK YOU!!!!:D:D

Some guys are much better and competent pilots at 300hrs then some guys at 3000. Its not the amount of hrs its the quality and the quality of the person. If you think you can make it at the regionals at 400hrs or whatever then go for it. I agree that instructing is good experiance but lots of people never went that route and many flight instructors get lazy even if they have tons of hrs. I think with what those regionals pay 300hrs all they should require.

Anyway, just be sure you can make it through training or else your screwed.

Agreed. My point is that ANY experience is better than hardly any, which is sadly becoming the case. And like I said before, if after 400 hours and you are "burnt out" on flying small planes, maybe a flying career isn't for you.

Well, I think there is truth to both sides of the low timer argument.

I love the experience gained by CFIing. I think it's valuable not only for flying skill and experience, but (more importantly) thought process. However, that being said, not everybody is cut out to be a CFI. They may be phenomenal pilots, with impeccable knowledge of regulations and a profound understanding of the industry and its workings. But they couldn't teach a student to tell difference between the brown half and the blue half.

That's not to say that there aren't other time building options.

With regards to the argument between low time pilots and high time pilots, well, I think it's a pretty inconsistent argument. Yes, there are way too many 250 hour pilots out there flying jets around calling up even the most uncongested airport with "Uh, Waterski, um, 3....325, uh, outer mark...er outbound....INBOUND", and there are plenty of low time (maybe not 250 hours) pilots out there who are perfectly capable and are skilled and dedicated enough to learn their stuff. There are also plenty of high time pilots spread across the same spectrum.

I'm of the school of thought that the problem doesn't necessarily lie with the incompetent 250hr pilot who accepts such a position, but rather the interviewing, hiring, and training process that does not adequately screen and weed. Rather than asking the same 25 technical questions on an oral (gouge?), why not have a couple minutes of more complex ATC dialogue? Rather than a sim session where a pilot flies a single or twin engine Frasca, why not put them in one of the airline's sims for half an hour and see what their learning curve is? Find out about the person's personality. Why even bother with all the stuff that can so easily just be put on flashcards and memorized and forgotten after the interview (what level of learning is that, CFIs!)? If I can remember what cities that an airline serves, domiciles, company officers, company history, etc etc etc, don't you think that I can remember when runway edge lights change color?

I guess that I've seen so many good low time pilots, bad low time pilots, good high time pilots, and bad high time pilots, that I don't believe in the Holy Grail of having more and more hours. It helps, but it doesn't make or break the pilot.

I'm sure people argued about this very thing back then, too. The industry goes through cycles. Guess what happened to all those low timers when they got to majors back then...They made BIG BUCKS! Maybe this could be a model for the future of the current industry? We can all hope!

Back on subject, you are absolutely correct, flight time is not always a good measure of somebody's skill or experience. I am sure there are plenty of low timers that can fly circles around high timers - more power to them. The thing about somebody with more time is that odds are they have been exposed to more than somebody with low time.

All depends on your priorities...If you want a super-short upgrade, chances are you can get hired on with low time, make more money than you would as a CFI, and after a year or so, be making more than all of your buddies who are FO's at Eagle, since you'll be in the left seat building PIC time. If you want to enjoy your time at the airlines a little more, build some time for your top choices, and go for it.

Good luck.

Save money as a CFI to prepare for the paycut you will take 1st year at any regional.

Don't prepare by CFI'ing to save money - Jump right in!! It's only ten months by the time you're on the Line.

He He....I expect no less then one good joke per leg!!!!

Haha, yea the 1000+ hour clowns usually have 4-5 jokes per leg. Never a repeat over a 4-day trip either!

its funny one of you mentioned the innability to talk on the radios bit. It is sort of a big pet peve for me and im not talking about people saying things like "fishfinder" or "here we go" when cleared for t/o.

The old Pan Am flies Jetstreams out of my field and the majority of their FOs sound worse then some of my presolo students. They miss radio calls, respond with something crazy other than what is required and stumble all over their own words.

I guess maybe a point to bring up...eveyrone who is saying to get that CFI time to become a "better" pilot, if you had the chance to go to a regional at 300-400 hrs vs cfing for 2 more years and applying at 900-1000 hrs...YOU WOULDN'T DO IT???? I JUST DON'T BELIEVE YOU... unless you are REALLY waiting for a certain regional to give you that call AND/OR you really like ur instructing job (like really like it)

I waited but it had nothing to do with liking or not liking my instructing job. I instructed in Utah and did not want to commute. Knowing that SkyWest was the one place I could go and not commute I waited until I had the 1000 hours for SKW. It was more QOL issue for me than an issue of loving my instructing job or not. And yes Honestly I don't think I would have traded the valuable experience I gained flight instructing. I did have the oppurtunity to jump ship and go to another regional at 400 hours but chose not to. But that's just me, to each his own.

WOW> I actually find myself agreeing with SkyHigh.

I have debated this idea of Flight Instrcuring versus going to a Regional Airline. I love Flight Instructing. I love to teach. I dont do it to "build time" In fact I hate the trem "building time" I prefer to call it "building experience". But the more I talk to airline pilots or people going through Airline pilot training, I dont see wher eflight instructing will help prepare you for Airline systems, CPT, or GENOps training. Flight Instructing is an important job, but its a totally different job from being an FO ina part 121 environment. The rules are different. The equipment is very different. Sittin gin the right seat watching a student fly and correcting his errors on steep turns, turns around a point and S-turns is not going to help you learn to fly a CAT-II approach. Heck, I never heard the term RVR in my private, intrument or commercial training. ididnt start getting into that term until I was a CFI.

So, I am now of the opinion that if you have the requirememnnts to go to an airlne and thats what you want to do then do that. Everyone has to start somewhere. Wheather you have 1000 hours or 300 hours isnt the point. The 300 hour new pilot is just as gren to CRJ systems as is the guy who flew Cessna 172's for 1000 hours. Plus you guys make it sound like the 300 hour newbie is inthe cockpit by himself and is making all the decisions. There is an at leats 15oo hour Captain who has experience in that aircraft making the decisions. And thirdly. Why do you guys knock on 300 hour pilots flying as FO's on regional airlines but you respect the 250 hour 2nd Lieutenant flying T-38's all by himself?


Airline flying, Flight Instructing. they are different jobs requireing different skil knowledge

As a Captain, you are training the First Officer how to become a Captain. Flight Instructing gives you incredible experience in doing just that...train. Mesaba for the longest time only invited CFI's to interview. This was why.

The world is ending...I suppose I agree with SkyHigh too (did he endorse this post, btw?!) LoL

Everyone complains how hard and expensive it is to get into this profession, yet if the rules change and one can get in easier than what you had to go through, all of a sudden you are up in arms. Gotta love it.

and i'm sooooo sick of the 250 hr FO, 250 hr military hot shot comparison that i should just stop reading the boards. The jobs are different, the demands are different, the training is different...and i'm sorry to say it, but the trainies abilities are typically different too.....Fly happy!

The military won't take somebody because he/she paid for a job.

The whole thing comes down to attitude.

I've had the pleasure of flying with both low time and high time pilots (air force,121,GA) and honestly, the attitude and or competence of the pilots is not directly proportional to the the amount of hours they have. The attitude and or competence they have comes from how they were taught, their reasons for being a pilot, their love for aviation, maturity etc, and also their experience level - which, is in fact not directly proportional to the amount of hours they have in their log book.

I've had in flight emergencies with a private pilot and a commercial pilot and the commercial pilot was the one who ended up freaking out and loosing it.

I've found that pilots whose attitude reflected more of a concern with learning, rather than climbing the ladder of success, are the better pilots.

The thing is you can have a 1000hr pilot whose spent 900 hrs doing touch and goes. Then you can have a 250hr pilot, whose spent 100hrs single pilot imc... and had three inflight emergencies

The stance is that if you have more hours, then you have more experience...only because the chances are you've seen more and the shiat has probably hit the fan a couple of times.

I believe experience comes from situations.....the consensus is, the more time you have the more likely you are to have had 'situations'. This doesn't bode well for low time pilots, however you could have had all your 'situations' in the first 200hrs of flight which ended up changing your whole attitude/views towards this flying gig.

Remember one of the main reasons for the hiring minimums is because of airline insurance premiums. They pay cheaper insurance if the guys and gals behind the sticks are high time pilots. These insurance firms also think that the more time you have the more experience....well in theory they would be right....but in my experience it all depends.

Nobody gets paid for stick and rudder anymore......you get paid for, well,.... if it hits the fan, you're the guy/gal they want in the cockpit.

JayHub

put a lid on it...

if you deny a job that brings you a step close to your career as an airline pilot because you haven't done the whole CFI B.S, or your time in the "hot, humid Memphis summers", then you my friend....are a fool.

Granted you can actually fly and do the radios and take the job!
If you have a commercial license but can't do the radios, then you shouldn't be flying at all...

You missed the whole point of my post...
BTW, CFI isn't BS. You are the fool for making such a comment.