BoilerPilot did you go to Purdue University in West Lafayette, IN

 

As an outsider going into ATP for my CFI's, I can say that their training, in my opinion, left some to be desired...but this is true of most programs, just about anywhere, when you've just come out of a super-expensive Collegiate program.

I also Instructed there for a short-time, and though I don't think it's the best training in the world, I can tell you that I never once doubted that they wouldn't live up to their promises. They certainly did for me...can't say as much for anywhere else I've been!

Good luck in whatever you choose - remember - ALL ROADS lead to Rome ;-P

 

Does anyone have a prediction on when the regionals will cool down or even halt their hiring?

 

This hiring frenzy will slow-down...most Regionals, I believe, are at or near optimum staffing levels by years end...

Though hiring for growth will slow down across the board, hiring for attrition (somewhat slower than growth), will increase...

It's still a good time to get in. Don't wait!

 

Hmm, I see I've touched a nerve. Well, I won't respond in kind, however, I will say that if you take a look at my post and at my previous posts you'll find that I'm not a zero to hero guy (a term that didn't even exist before the last year or two, with the possible exception of Gulfstream International). Yes, I did go to Purdue, but I fail to see how that is a bad thing. Last time I checked, Purdue had a couple of tens of thousands of students and hundreds of thousands of graduates, and we can't ALL be bad.

I didn't get an airline job when I graduated, I got a flight instructor job, which I went through for a couple years until I got the time so that I could go to a place that was hiring and that I could stand flying for.

How many years ago was that? Does it really matter? I CHOOSE not to put my actual title next to my name, because I prefer not to say something that might reflect poorly on myself or my company. I prefer to let my words and opinions speak for themselves. Of course, some people jump to conclusions and assume that just because I didn't outright attack ATP, it must mean that I'm a "zero to hero". I've seen a lot of pilots come through from a lot of different programs, including FBOs. I was initially trained at a Mom and Pop FBO all the way up to about 100 hours, which I paid for out of my own pocket working over the summer. I've seen the most incredible pilots you've ever seen come from Universities, FBOs, dedicated training programs, military, hundreds of hours of instructing or 91 flying, 135 pilots, 121 pilots, etc etc etc, and I've seen the worst pilots you could imagine come from each and every one of these.

As you'll see from some of my other posts, I couldn't care less where you come from or how good you look on paper. And frankly, it's not my right to judge you based on my own subjective opinions of these methods. Earn my respect and I'll give it to you, I don't care if you have 200 hours or 2000 hours or 20000 hours.

People who complain about JetU and ATP etc etc can complain all they want, but the fact is that people ARE getting hired from them. In the risky business of pilot hiring, seeing that a student went from zero to hero at LEAST proves that they can learn in a fast paced environment. It has nothing to do with the fact that the pilots produced in these factories are better pilots, it's simply about mitigating your risks, one big one of which happens to be candidates not being able to drink enough of the fire hose. Yes, a lot of it is marketing hype generated by these companies. Well, they're businesses. Since the training school you provided a link to specializes in paying for multi time building, I can only assume that they are geared towards helping people realize the dream of becoming a professional pilot, wherever that may take them. Because of this focus, would it hurt to say "Hey, we provide a 100% learning environment where you actually learn the plane rather than a 71% learning environment to get you to the airline on as little knowledge as possible."? Or the age old (slightly cliche) testimonial? That's up to them to decide.

I have two more points, the first one being rather short: Your reaction to my simple statement about the instructor in the back all the time suggests you have something vested in this company, whatever that may be. I'm sorry if I irritated you or offended you or somebody you know, it was most certainly not my intention. I was simply remarking on the feelings that I got when I read the time building page (multi time building being one of ATPs saving graces, something like 200 hours). That being said, we're all entitled to our opinions, and if I say something sarcastic, I don't expect to be denigrated, just like if you say something sarcastic, you shouldn't expect me to start insulting you about things that have nothing to do with the conversation.

Lastly, I can't help but shake my head at people who feel, honestly, nothing but malice towards low time pilots who are getting a job. Yes, they had it easier than us getting into the industry. Yes, they had a choice of whether or not they wanted to flight instruct. Yes, they aren't having to (or won't have to, depending on where they are in their career) toil for years in airplanes that are arguably unsafe before they can go on to flying for a major or go ex-pat. But you're forgetting one thing: all these people are underneath you. Your current captain-ship, or recent hire to a top tier regional or major, your relative job security because of your seniority: all of it is being "funded" by those below you. The "race to the bottom" because of people going to Mesa, TSA, Gulfstream, etc etc etc? Well, the whole airline industry, with a few exceptions, is in a race to the bottom. Yes, in the old days, 90 seat jets were mainline material, and at mainline you wouldn't have FOs making $25-35k a year flying said jets. But the same can be said for mainline pilots. Aren't they in a race to the bottom when they're willing to sacrifice their pensions and take huge pay cuts simply to continue flying? Who would have thought a 747-400 FO at UA would settle for $130k a year? Isn't that about the same cost for the pilot per seat as a regional pilot making $25-35k? I'm not saying it's a perfect example by any means, but it's still a sobering comparison, in my opinion.

Who cares where somebody got their hours? They're below you on the seniority list, and whether they know it or not, they're helping to advance your career. Who cares where somebody goes to work? You think that a bottom feeder's wages really has that much to do with yours? You're kidding yourself if you think that. Look at the "quality" regionals out there. They have extremely competitive wages and still manage to turn profits. Like it or not, this whole industry is in a race towards the bottom, and by alienating pilots who go to a "bottom feeder", people who choose to pay to get all their hours instead of getting them through job experience, or people who go to University flight programs, all we're doing is dividing ourselves and making it easier for management to degrade our working conditions more. We're focusing our attention on the wrong things here.

 

Very, very well said...it's something I completely agree with you upon, though I have never been able to pinpoint exactly why I felt that way...You've cleared it up. Thanks for the great post.

Also, I'd like to stop seeing bashing of CFI's going to Mesa and the likes (initially)...it's just another way of paying their dues...and if they can get into the industry and quickly realize (as I did), that there are better things out there to work for, all the better to them. Let's face it - 90% of us just wanted to fly Jets as a CFI. What the hell is wrong with that?! Nothing...Brings me to my second-point. Who can reasonably expect a CFI to understand the incredibly fluid and dynamic industry that we call the Regionals, without actually being inside?? It's like asking a homeless man to explain the intricacies and inner-workings of the Galileo space telescope (or to ask me about the inner-workings of the female mind, but THAT is another subject entirely LoL). The only human way to treat our future airline pilot's is to educate them (with tact, not name calling), not bash them...and that includes those who chose to go to the low-end PFT deals.

 

I went to Purdue as well Boilerpilot. That is why I asked. Lived at 116 W Fowler avenue, and had a great time there.

 

Experimental when you say the hiring frenzy will slow down, what do you mean (i.e. instead of hiring 30 pilots a month they will hire 10 pilots a month). Please clarify if you can.

Thanks!

 

Exactly...hiring anything over 30 Pilots a month is staffing for either incredible attrition, or more likely, growth. When growth slows (which it will soon), attrition will stablize in the short term at 20-40 a month (IMHO) until the Majors kick into full-swing.

From what I hear (jumpeating and such), many Pilots won't be sticking around Mainline until 65 - they've had it...don't think it will slow down Regional attrition too much.

 

Thanks for the information. I have one more question. Does the hiring outlook for the next few years look positive, and if so would you get into the industry if you were in my shoes?

Thanks