I really don't agree...why chase average if you can find something that better suits your needs? For example, some would rather upgrade much quicker than average if possible (i.e. six months), in order to hope to be interviewing at the majors (hope, because all that can change, like you say) when all your buddies at the "average" regional with the "good contract" are thinking about upgrading.

FWIW, industry average pay is still terrible...

What does diversity of flying matter? Sure, it might be nice, but I'd say it is a looooong way down the list.

It sure is nice to live in base, though...one just needs to realize that bases close all the time (AWAC's "great migration" comes to mind), so don't base it solely on that one. All of the above factors you mention are highly volatile, with the exception of pay (depending on how much is left on the contract).

That's kind of a discombobulated set of thoughts I just wrote, but I'll leave them, I guess, not sure of how else to put it.

The key for me is, and always has been: Your top 5 regionals are going to be way different than my top 5. Do what works the best for you.

Groovin, I am awfully curious why TSA, Pinnacle, and Mesaba make your list of no-gos...I'm guessing you're goosey because of Mesaba's insanity swing from furloughs/pay cuts to hiring in droves within 18 months, and that you think TSA and Pinnacle don't treat their people well enough....Hope all is goin' well!

 

They are indeed all risky. Go to a place that treats their employees well, you take the risk of being there about 15 years, and never moving on to a major. Granted, if that happens, at least you are at a place that will take care of you. Go to a place that treats their employees like crap (but has a good industry reputation), and you'll likely be upgrading/moving on quickly...but only if the market is good. The risk here is that if you get stuck at such an airline, you are still being treated like scum. Go to a startup airline, or one with a lot of new markets, and the risk is that they might go bankrupt on their big business venture and you'll be on the street. Or, they could be ravenously successful and you'll be living like a king...who knows.

The only thing you can be certain of is that if you go to a place with an absolutely horrible reputation all around (i.e. Mesa Air Group, GoJet), you will likely be very displeased with your job.

 

History tends to repeat itself.

 

Top 5
I will bite.

1. Horizon
2. ExpressJet
3. Skywest
4/5. TIE Republic and Air Wisconsin

Horizon is by far the best. The highest first year pay around. Actually the highest pay around period. They have the best contract in the regionals, and it is the ONLY regional I would ever consider being a lifer at.

ExpressJet has set the bar high for 50 seat jet pay. Good contract. Lots of movement recently.

Skywest has decent pay and good work rules. Quick upgrade. Most everyone seems to be happy there.

Air Wisconsin and Republic are both good places. Air Wisconsin doesn't have any growth, however upgrade time is still relatively low. They will not be losing any flying for a while. Maybe they will pick up some more flying.
Republic is lucky in that they are diversified amongst the carriers they operate for (United, Delta, Continental, US Air). They have a fairly good contract. 2nd year FO pay is a joke.


Places to stay away from (in order of worst to slightly less bad)
1. GoJet
2. Mesa
3. Trans States
4. Lynx
5. Great Lakes

GoJet is by far the worst. They are an alter-ego carrier (the next level right below scabs). They fly 70 seat jets for less than 50 seat pay. All GoJet's pilots are hated (especially by those at Trans States). If you go there, you are making a huge mistake.

Mesa pilots had a sh*tty contract shoved down their throats last time around because they were busy protecting their jobs. For the equipment they fly, pay is industry worst. Work rules are indsutry worst (can you say 8 days off). Contract is industry worst. Lots of turnover (over 700 Mesa pilots have quit so far this year. This is approximately 1/2 of their pilot workforce). Upgrade is amongst the longest in the regionals. Don't go there. Mesa is a sinking ship.

Trans States pilots got screwed by management with the creation of GoJet. Pay is bad (look at 2nd year FO pay). Contract is bad. Most pilots do not like it there.

Lynx. $43.75 an hour for a captain on a 74 seat aircraft. Enough said.

Great Lakes. They fly the hell out of you. You make the worst pay rate in the industry ($15/hr starting pay), although they do fly small airplanes. Not necessarily a bad company, but there are many better opportunities.

 

There is nothing wrong with Mesaba other than crappy jet FO pay. It's actually competitive for the Saab FO's, but way below average for year 2 and onwards jet FO pay (although it's still higher than PCL FO pay). Sorry, there was nothing anyone could do about this while in BK.

Our work rules are generally above average.
Our upgrade is above average (sigh...FINALLY).
Our training department is above average.
Our safety record is above average (yes, I know, we'll see what the future holds, however, see above).
Our union effectiveness is above average.
Our Captain pay is pretty much industry average, and soon to go up considerably with the wage recaptures.
Our pilot group as a whole is certainly at least average.

Our corporate management, unfortunately, is also average. So we aren't Horizon or Xjet, whaddya want?

 

Even though Pinnacle does have issues with work rules/contract, as someone said before....I think Pinnacle is a good place to be if you live in base, and you are looking for a quick upgrade. Sure companies like Comair and Horizon are good places to go, but if you want a 5 year upgrade and be looking at all your friends who went to a place like Pinnacle and are sitting 3rd year Captain while you're still waiting 2 more years to upgrade, the decision becomes easier in my opinion. No place is perfect, but I know I'll upgrade quicker than some people who were hired 2-3 years before me at other regionals. I mean, isn't that why we are all doing this...either to be a stepping stone or to hold a captain position ASAP?

 

I agree with almost everything you've said. Upgrade is waaay above average right now...Im not sure most people are even aware of that. F/O pay is quite laughable though. When do we get the wage recaptures? One other thing I will say is that for those of us in training right now, we would hardly call the training dept above average...not because of safety issues but because of the way we've all been jerked around with our schedules and such. Things are evidently very disorganized in that regard.

 

Point taken, but you're still putting XJ in with a group of other carriers in which we certainly don't share the "obvious negative qualities" of those carriers.

 

Well, at least over the last few years the training dept has been very good. I believe the recent problems all come down to lack of management foresight and overall cheapskate-ness. In a nutshell, they have failed to staff the training department adequately for the growth phase we are in. Plus, they are outsourcing too much, which might help grow the fat mgt. bonuses, but is never good as far as effective training goes.

 

What's the upgrade time at Horizon again?