And that my friend is exactly the mentality the company wants you to have.:mad:

That is EXACTLY the Race To The Bottom mentality.

Geezzus whats next flying a 737 for regional pay come on people grow a pair

You see this is what im talking about...i knew you guys were gonna back me up at some point...hahaha. you got my support man....you deserve more....we all do!

I don't want to come off the wrong way but you’re getting caught up in an hourly rate. You seem to be forgetting your newly acquired quarantines and trip rig. I don't think you quite understand what this is going to do for you guys. Due to the guarantees the average pilot at SKW gets paid about 150-200 hours more than they block. YTD I've only blocked 689 hours but I've been paid for 1037. By the end of the year I'll be around 1250 on less than 850 hours of block. Compare that to your Block/Credit?

So if your newly acquired guarantees add 150 hours to your pay then that's a 15% raise dependent on your block. You're not seeing this but you'll feel it! When you look back over your year and compare it to what you would have been paid under your old contract, you'll be amazed. You'll see one of two scenarios, either less block for the same pay or the same block for 15+% more pay. Either way you win!

So many pilots get caught up in the hourly rate and forget about its foundation. Guarantees & rigs are far more important than additional $2-3 an hour.

2nd Yr CR7 FO:

$2 more an hr on a 1000 hr yr. = $2000 MAX!

150 hrs of pay @ $37/hr = $5550 Variable!

4th Yr CA CR2:

$2 more an hr on a 1000 hr yr = $2000 MAX!
$4 more an hr on a 1000 hr yr = $4000 MAX!

150 hrs of pay @ $62 (?) = $9300 Variable!

My first full year on line I flew 989 hours and was paid for 1216 hours, yes it should have been more becuase 1st year pay is BS. I know several 3 & 4 year CA here at SKW that are making close $80K+ because they know how to work the system.

Do the math after 6 months and you'll see just how big of a raise you've just received! It's called a solid pay foundation.

Well said. Thanks for pointing that out. Many ASA pilots are failing to see this!

Nice break out JetJock, thanks.

All aspects of the contract considered, it truly beats most out there.:cool:

Then quit hiring entry level people.

No not most! You'd be hard pressed to find a pilot group with a better contract, I guarantee your W2's are the highest in the industry next year. Yes some areas but over all, ASA got the ball.

Lets get in the game SKW! Lets go RAH, AWAC and MAG!

Please educate me about "quarantines". If you mean guarantee, then tell me what our new minimum monthly guarantee is in the TA. P.S. I already know the answer. It's exactly the same: 75.00 hours/ month. The rig does very little in that you get paid 1 hour of block for every 2 hours of duty, i.e. 6 hours of block on a 12 hour duty day. Most of our existing block/ duty ratios are already this way. I want a good guarantee AND rig AND hourly pay. We are being offered none of these. I am trying to raise the bar for ASA and the industry and I would appreciate if you all would do the same. Even if you like the TA, vote no, and they will improve it even more.

Min daily guarantee of 3:45, daily duty 2:1 with 1:1 over 12 hours. These are MIN guarantees!

You should be able to figure it out! Don't be naive and think this will not affect you when you hold a line or break guarantee. As far as the 75 hours is concerned................do you really not understand its purpose? :confused: It has no bearing on line holders other than the minimum a line should be created to, it's truly there for reserves? That's why it's called a guarantee! It’s there so reserves can be paid a guaranteed amount if they don’t fly. If you’re a line holder and you drop trips causing your credit to be below the guarantee then you voluntarily forfeit your rights to the guarantee.

With these guarantees your average pairing will net 1+ hours of additional credit dependent upon its length.

BTW, what would a stand-up pay at ASA?

Say 12:52 duty on 4 hours of block? With your guarantees it will pay 6:52.

Next month we have MEM stand-ups that credit 6:44 on 2:50 block and you get 8:54 of rest. Now that's a great stand up, bid it 5 times in a row and get 33:10 credit on 13:40 block. If you want, bid it twelve times (month) for a total of 80:48 credit on 34 hrs of block and get 18-19 days off. Just an example!

Yo man, min guarantee is pretty sweet for folks who pickup. I've done quite a few 2hr-3hr pickups. However in the past when I was obsesive on pickups I'd get the 1 hour CSG turns. You better believe we wanted min guarantee then.

This is just something that will protect pickup guys from low block pickups... Otherwise divide 75 by 3.75 and let the light turn on.

JetJock16 are you inciting a p***ing contest? Don't forget to vote yes JetJock16.

75 divided by 3.75 is for reserves. But if you have a trip that begins with one leg late at night that blocks 1:30 you’ll be paid 3:45 for the first day instead of 1:30. This is great because we all want commutable trips.

DAY 1 Show: 18:45 End: 20:15

19:00-20:00 ATL-BHM 1:00 blck 3:45 cdt

TOTAL: 02:30 duty 1:00 blck 3:45 cdt

Day 2 Show: 9:15 End: 06:15

10:00-11:00 BHM-ATL 1:00 blck 1:00 cdt
11:30-01:45 ATL-MKE 2:15 blck 2:15 cdt
02:15-04:30 MKE-ATL 2:15 blck 2:15 cdt
05:00-06:00 ATL-GSP 1:00 blck 1:00 cdt

TOTAL: 08:00 duty 6:30 blck 6:30 cdt

Day 3 Show: 5:45 End: 05:45

06:30-07:30 GSP-ATL 1:00 blck 1:00 cdt
10:00-11:00 ATL-MEM 1:00 blck 1:00 cdt
11:30-12:30 MEM-ATL 1:00 blck 1:00 cdt
04:30-05:30 ATL-BNA 1:00 blck 1:00 cdt

TOTAL: 12:00 duty 4:00 blck 6:00 cdt

Day 4 Show: 5:45 End: 02:15

06:30-07:30 BNA-ATL 1:00 blck 1:00 cdt
08:30-11:00 ATL-HOU 2:30 blck 2:30 cdt
11:30- 2:00 HOU-ATL 2:30 blck 2:30 cdt

TOTAL: 8:30 duty 6:00 blck 6:00 cdt

TRIP TOTALS: 17:30 blck 22:15 cdt

Just an example but what would this pairing pay under your current contract............17:30? With your new contract it pays 4:45 more! Basically it forces the company to work you and if they don't you get paid. Also if they over work you get paid even more! Some pairing will be less and some pairing will be more, I'm sure you can come up with example of each. This should be huge for you ATR guys with your shorter legs.

Regardless, at the end of the year it will all add up and you'll be amazed how much more you were paid. I know everyone at SKW usually is. 150-200 hours more in pay means more to me than $2-$3 more an hour. I'd like to have both, but you can't always have your cake and eat it to. Like I said, you can't expect to jump 30% all at once at the regional level.

Also, doesn't ATR stand for Ain't Temperature Regulated? LOL :D

BTW, I've already voted yes! We're family and we need to support each other. GO ASA!


ps. Numbers aren't exact block/credit times. This was just to prove a point.

Jetjock, I appreciate your support for ASA, and I appreciate you voting ALPA. Let me give you an example of my line next month and how my pay would actually go down with the TA. I fly 13 CDO's (or "naps"). Many have less than 12 hours of duty, but for sake of argument let's average 12 hours which would be 6 hours of pay with the new rig. 13 times 6= 78 hours or 3 hours over minimum guarantee. We currently have underblock pay which pays over the 75 hour guarantee when we fly a leg in less block than it is scheduled for. I usually get about 7 hours a month of underblock pay on top of guarantee, or 82 hours pay. Did I mention that underblock pay is gone in the TA?

Rigs are great, but we CAN have that AND higher hourly rates if everyone sticks together. SKYW is not hurting for money. It's time to get paid what we're worth.

Amen, Brother

Hey people, I have to agree with jetjock, this contract is very good, it's not the best but it seriously helps boost our W2's. We need really consider what this contract will do for us. The duty rigs will be extremely beneficial, we also have a very good scheduling system and profit sharing. The contract is only three years long, if we don't vote it in it will take a substantially longer time to find agree to another contract. The more time we wait the more our purchasing power is degraded. The Top 700 guys only get a small raise but that raise plus the rigs brings them to the top on the regional industry. We need to get this one voted in, If we do we have a much better chance of getting new contracts and more flying. More flying equates to lower upgrade times and i heard CA's get paid more then FO's.

You had me until this part.

Of all the bad reasons to ratify ANY contract, doing so in the hopes of securing growth and faster upgrades is the absolute worst.

:( Why can't we have schedules like that? :(

It IS possible...... Just that our company refuses to do it.....

Where to begin...
You say it's not the best and I agree. You say it will boost our w2's and that is only true if you fly the ATR or 200. The scheduling still allows rescheduling outside your footprint (extending) and junior manning (flying on your days off) among other problems. You say it will take a substantially longer time to negotiate another contract if we vote no. This is absolutely a false misconception that many of you have. It could take literally a few hours to go back to the table and correct the problems. We do not have to start over again, i.e. NOT another 5 years.
You say the rigs bring the 700 guys to the top of the industry. In my above example I show a pay cut. Horizon is the top of the industry, BTW. My counterpart there makes $14/ hour more than me. (18% more)

Then you play into their hands about getting new flying and growth. This is exactly what management wants you to do. It just doesn't work this way. ASA has had some of the lowest 50 seat rates and only until recently did upgrades start happening quickly because Delta (among others) started hiring again. 2 years ago, F/0's were stuck in the right seat 4 or 5 years. Also look at how ASA lost LAX to XJT who has much higher rates of pay.

WE ARE IN CONTROL due to massive pilot shortages, which will only get worse as the legacies continue to hire. DO NOT SELL OUT!

1) Skywest will not come to the table nov 21st if we vote no. We can't just call them up and tell jerry to be at a meeting. We will have to go through the NMB which we all know will take forever. Skywest can go back to not agreeing to the 700 rates and maybe 6 months to a year from now we will get 2% on the 700 rates with inflation this means nothing.

2) We almost had CAL flying and lost it because we couldn't give a real estimate on the costs. (don't give me that's just what the company tells you, because you all know ASA desperately wants to get flying with other carriers)

3) Express jet will not make more money then our 700 guys and there payscale reflects that.

4)Horizon has 1/3 of our pilot group's size with an upgrade time of almost a decade on the jet. I'm guessing your counterpart took longer to get to captain then you. With duty rigs I bet you will start to see the same money he/she is making. Also horizon is one company with only a handful of jet drivers, how many other 700 drivers will make as much as you do?

I just don't see this contract as selling out, it significantly increases 1st year QOL, gives a substantial increase to the majority of the pilot group while increasing 700 rates higher then most regionals (with exception to horizon) and positions us for future growth. ASA will not be my retirement airline so if you want to fight for that extra couple percent then vote no i understand where you are coming from I just don't agree. There definately is a pilot shortage but we should be realistic with our goals and future.

I would pay you to come on one of my 700 flights and tell one of the senior captains I fly with that one. Hope you can fight.

106/hour with duty rigs? Tell me seriously who has higher rates?

I can understand why the company wants you to under block. Excluding the obvious, it benefits them when they adjust your historical block down. Essentially taking money from you.

You’re saying that ASA builds lines less than 75 hours? I didn't know this. At SKW the least a line can be built to is 75 credit hours (not block). This is where our rigging can help. In September I had 18 days off, blocked 57 hours and credited 84. I then picked up open time and I was still home every day.

Do you get Block or Better? Does ASA pay you more when you under block and over block? No, which do you spend more time doing?

Just curious?

ASA 10 year 700 Captain will make $81.44/hr. If he/she averages 12 hrs of 'soft pay' or credits that we used to not have (which is conservative I believe from talking to people from Skywest and ExpressJet) that adds $977 per month - or -$11,727/year to his pay. Now, add in the projected bonus, and agin I'll be conservative and use 3% of his salary....Adds approx $2,500 + to his/her salary. Now.......is this contract worth more than the 1% pay raise for 700 Captains? I think so.

ASA has CDO lines that are blocked under guarantee (around 40 hours) but you still get paid guarantee plus underblock. On the 700 most legs are underblock, and it is hard to get overblock even if you try. The TA removes underblock pay which for me is around $500/ month or $6000/ year! Anything concessionary in nature should be avoided. I showed in an earlier post that the new 700 rates now apply to up to 76 seats (i.e. crj-900). So the company basically gets 9% more revenue (actually more because several of these seats are first class) and we get 1% raise. Not only is that concessionary, but we haven't even mentioned inflation or cost of living raises.

I understand you guys are excited to get a TA after 5 years. Believe me, so am I. I've actually been here almost twice that long and watched as management found loopholes and creative interpretations to get around the exisiting contract. I know what they are capable of. After over 5 years we need to get all we can from them, not settle for the first thing
that comes along. What I'm really baffled by is why the negotiating committee and subsequently the MEC went for this. So now it's up to us, the pilots to decide what's right. BTW, most of the yes votes seem to be new guys so I was wondering if anyone on here is thinking of voting yes that has been at the company say 5 years or more? just curious, don't take it the wrong way.

I understand and I want you guys to get everything you deserve. I'm not an ASA pilot so I don't understand all your loopholes. I was just trying to explain the benefits of "soft pay." Personally, from what I've learned about it, I think under block pay is a benefit for the company in the long run.

Best of luck! I hope SKW gets ALPA and we can start contributing to the efforts of others. It's going to be close.

Thanks, and we support you as well

Ummm, db74.....

Rigs apply to CDO's! Read up. They will be worth more than your underblock.

Looks like you need to read up. I show the example several posts above.