ASA and the CrJ-900
 

Now when this TA becomes concrete some things will obviously change. The ATR's are finally on their way out after three years of saying so, but these seats need to be replaced. Now its been said that Skywest does not like to fly out of ATL which is understandable.

My prediction and other "high-up" employees predictions is that ASA will take deliveries of the 900 and start flying it out of ATL to replace the ATR. If that happens, along with the new contract, ASA will truly be one of the ideal regionals to work for.:cool:

Sorry to tell you this, the 900 is not that neat. I would rather fly a 900 that only said Delta on it. Also, not to be rude, but ASA is the step child of SkyWest. JA would rather see his baby grow, than ASA. With gas being as high as it is, losing the ATR will only hurt Delta's bottom line.

ok,, that is not true. ASA maybe the step child of skywest, but after spending 425million dollars to buy them, i seriously doubt uncle jerry wants asa to be on the back burner. why would he take an airline he purchased for 425m dollars and turn it into a 10million dollar operation. he is still cleaning house over at asa and you will soon see asa start to regain their footing. skywest shareholders success is now directly linked to asa success. its like for us here at pinnacle,, if colgan were to tank it would take with it all the money the company put into it,, which was chump change by the way.

The Q400 is also a possibility.

Your point is true. However, ASA makes money right now with or without the 900's. I see SKW 900's come back to SLC or maybe LAX and doing Mexico flying. Is there more 900 flying to come with Flagships 900 in the ATL?

you are right. my point wasn't that asa would get any 900's, i am not sure they even will. i was strictly refering to keeping and building business. i mean i thought comair was going to tank a couple months ago and now they have been awarded some 900 flying for delta. its a crazy regional world out there, i just know uncle jerry wan'ts asa to do good,, the share holders demand it.

as far as pinnacle in atlanta yeah things are moving along. we get our first 900 at the end of this month, and starts revenue service on dec 1. so far we are slated for 17 planes i believe, with future growth in slc and lax,, (that last part is my 2 cents, which i believe will happen in the next few years).

The ATR's are not going anywhere anytime soon. We are not getting the 900 any time soon. We may be ugly but we work AND we make money! Delta and Skywest know it. We have the same or more ramp space than Delta. Skywest, ASA, Chataqua, Republic..etc are all Delta's bitc@#s; period. You may be your own "owner" but Delta still tells you where to go.

Thats provided that you guys vote in the TA....5 very good friends of mine are lineholders at ASA and they arent voting it in....they also told me that the captains they have been flying with are voting it down as well.

voting it down will not be the end of the world for you guys....u shouldnt settle with the first chance u get anyway. The ball is finally in the courts of the pilot groups....management will soon be powerless without us...take a stand for whats right....none of us get paid what we are worth

As far as your 900s go? i saw 3 brand new CRJ-900's parked on the ramp with your new livery in CLT last week....the tail numbers ended in LR.....in case any of you new hires dont know what that means...it means the aircraft are registered to MESA

If you guys do end up getting 900s....you just better make sure u get different payscales to go along with it...and dont back down!!!!

Why would anyone want to fly a 900 for regional pay rates.. their is nothing regional about a 900...

ASA not getting 900's. Delta has it covered now with Skywest, Mesa, Comair, Pinnacle and Repub's e170's. Sorry. We missed the boat on that. Wrong place, wrong time.

The ATR's will go eventually, and the replacement aircraft will go to bid....and ASA WILL be undercut for the business. Sorry, there goes 16 more airframes.

12 airframes.
IF delta chooses to buy new ATR's, they will go to ASA because we already have the program in place. If they go with the Q, somebody else might get them.

The ASA purchase agreement between SKW Inc and DAL was for guaranteed "flying" (not routes) through 2020. If DAL chooses to replace ASA then they must increase flying in other areas (1:1). If DAL decreases ASA flying without a 1:1 adjustment they will be in breach and that will cost then $125M which is the last installment of the purhcase price that is due at the end of the agreement. Of course the contract doesn’t specify which of SKW Inc 2 airlines must receive the positive flying. Essentially ASA can loose 1 block hour and SKW gain 1 block hour or vise versa. Also the gain can not be a previous gain post agreement seeing the contract also contains clauses for guaranteed growth (SKW Inc airline non-specific). At least this is how I understand it.

Unfortunately for ASA and NO OFFENSE INTENDED, their a Bastard Step Child. Newly loved none the less.

Giving 12 a/c worth of flying to a lower bidder without a 1:1 trade will cost DAL more money than they'll save.

Sorry to bust your bubble, but the TA will get approved, especially since 13.5 million will be distributed amongst the group (and captains will get 40% more than the FO's). People are greedy and want the money. I am mid list on the -200, and every captain I fly with is excited for their $. True, the -700 guys wont get much of a raise, but they are outnumbered by the -200 guys who will be getting a substantial raise.
And as far as Mesa getting -900's for Delta, well, Delta will regret this. Mesa is a piece of #hit (I used to work there) and they will cancel more flights than they fly (staffing) because nobody there cares about anything, and they dont know the first thing about running an airline.

True, don't for get the ATR guys, it's a huge raise for them as well.

As far as Mesa canceling flights. Ya, then SKW Inc will have to bail them out just like we did in ORD & DEN back in July & Aug.

Thank you for that proper prospective. The 200/ATR guys outnumber everyone else by a large margin. The TA most likely will pass.:cool:

Delta is almost binded to replace the seats on the ATR if it is gone. Whether they shift them to SKW or not is another issue, but i doubt that, seeing as it was a pain to get SKW out here to ATL, logistically speaking. Do not be surprised if a new equipment announcement is made in the next six months.

Ok who is flying them for mainline rates in the whole entire world??:confused:

Bringing SKW into any city is easier than almost anyone else, "logistically speaking." First we have the man power, second we don't have as many “hoops” ;) to jump through, third DAL Ops and ground personnel were already in place, fourth SKW already had & was certified for the a/c and SKW is willing to go anywhere.......anytime.......for the right margin. Don’t forget that when DAL or UAL has need us we’ve been there with very few problems. And don’t bring unions into this, DAL wanted us in CVG around the time Comair went on strike, JA & Company didn’t want anything to do with that! We aren’t flying ASA routes in ATL, it was additional DAL flying where as CVG would have been crossing the picket line. We won’t do that regardless of whether we’re union or not. Jerry’s proven this!

P.S. Not that it should matter but I feel I must repeat, I voted for ALPA.

Not getting into a who fly argument my point is the aircraft is comprable to a DC-9 and should be flown for comparable rates.. if we dont stand up and start somewhere then they will be no change....

It would be nice...in a perfect world.

This isn't a perfect world, and that will never happen. It's wasted energy, constantly posting on it. Pick your battles, my friend.

Ill take your advice Experimental

National / Jet carriers like SKW, XJT, RAH, ASA or any other are not going to pay mainline rates to fly 80-100 set aircraft. If the Mainline wanted that cost structure they would fly them themselves. Reality is that mainline carriers DONT want to fly aircraft that size, their eye is on LONG HAUL, INTERNATIONAL and HIGHLY profitable routes.....

NOW....can, will and should these carriers pay more for the likes of the 700, 900 and 170/175 ...yes... will those payscales ever equal what an equivalent mainline rate would possibly be... highly unlikely.

Reality is that this business has been evolving and changing for 20 years. Mainline carriers are flying bigger and bigger aircraft and getting rid of the smaller aircraft all during this time. At the same time the old "regional" carrier has taken on a different role... at JET carriers flying those smaller aircraft and yes maybe slightly less profitable routes that mainline doesnt want to directly fly.

NONE of that precludes better pay and benefits and work rules. But the fact is that pay at THIS level will never equal the pay at THAT level.


and in fact... I believe other than a few isolated cases so called regional airlines are NOT regional at all. Perhaps this forum should be JET/NATIONAL airlines........ just a thought

Its not busting my bubble at all.....i work for a completely different company. Im just saying not to get your hopes up....you guys deserve a contract...its been a long ass time...my point was that you guys dont have to settle for the first thing that comes your way. If you stand up for what is right and set an example...other pilot groups will follow.

And carib pilot....are u even out of training yet? Get some line experience and you'll see what i mean

If I'm not mistaken, I believe that airlines are categorized by gross revenue. From what I remember:

1B or > = Major
$500M - $999M = National
$100M - $499M = LCC
$50M - $99M = Regional

or something to that effect.:confused:



atp

Eh...that's how the politicians label us is all. Nothing more.

So i guess you a holding line at another company supercedes me actually being here and holding the contract in hand?? How will being on a line prove your point?:confused: I have been given a copy of this contract and have read it front to back. The fact is, this contract DEMOLISHES alot of the other regional contracts out there. I've seen other contracts, ive done my homework before i even applied bub. Do you even know any details of the contract besides pay??

Whats up Flyboy8784? I am willing to say that the TA will be approved at ASA as Flyboy8784 stated...

Who knows whats going on with the ATRs or the 900s? The ATR training department has no idea, but we have so many well informed people here? If you really know, you're upper management and under contract not to leak such info. :eek:

Carbpilot, pilots fresh out of training generally hold their opinions, as hard as it was for me. ;)

BASTARD STEP CHILD?! Yeah you guys are probably right, but in the end thats just how Skywest Airline employees think of ASA. I doubt Skywest Inc Upper management (you know the decision makers) would be as immature. They're motivated by money, not emotion or partiality. Skywest Management will move to another company/industry when the money is right. Their not as partial to their airline as we are, their careers simply don't rest on the survival and growth of Skywest Airlines like yours does. Why don't you guys vote yes on the Union. Its amazing how many mainline airline pilots ask me when you guys are going to vote it in...

Stay classy Flyboy8784.

"BASTARD STEP CHILD" isn't a term to demean; it just verbal illustration that describes ASA's position under SKW Inc. Looking at it, the term “Bastard” should be removed because you’re not fatherless (DAL), so ASA should just be called the “RED HEADED STEP CHILD.” I also said that ASA is LOVED none the less! Despite what ASA employees seem to think, we at SKW don't think poorly of ASA employees nor do we have any ill-will. The fact is you’re “FAMILY” now, but so many of our pilots/FA’s seem to forget this simple fact. We've seen far more disrespect from ASA FLT Crew than is reciprocated. I'm based in ATL and we've had FA’s literally enter the crew lounge almost in tears (I witness 3 examples myself) from being THROWN off ASA a/c when they stayed behind to help clean up and cross seatbelts. When taxiing most of us refer to ASA as company, "Foxtrot to 26L behind Company." Regardless I understand there are bad apples in every bunch and SKW isn't immune.

We need to stop the bickering and pull together. The first steep is getting ALPA at SKW. If the ALPA drive fails, sure of it (I voted yes), that doesn't mean we have to stay divided. I was a commuter for almost 2 years between PHX and FAT, DEN, SLC, TUS and ATL (for a few months before I moved). I'd say about 80% of all the mainline pilots I came across repeatedly said we didn't need a union after I told them about our policies. Unfortunately it's the grey areas, changing the policies overnight and examples being made out of pilots that tells me we need protection & representation.

BTW, I have two friends at ASA so I've had the opportunity to look over the TA. There are some loop holes that are in SKW favor but overall it's the best TA in the nation. At least for awhile ASA will be the highest paid. Some may say hold out! I don't recommend it, if you guys don't sign this TA you’ll regret it in the end. Also the way it works is ASA tops the industry, then RAH, then XJT, then someone else and it goes on and on. You just can't expect to jump 30% right away on the regional level. After all, most of your pilots are getting around a 15-17% raise (Senior 200 & ATR CA's) with healthy raises across the board. Through all the guaranteed rigs in and you guys are going to make way more money than you realize. I know it won't fail and it shouldn't. SKW gave you 95+% of what you wanted and you deserved it.

IMO + 2 cents.............................FWIW.

Jeeze....you guys are making me out to be another SKY HIGH :p. Carib pilot...the reason why i said that was because i was just like you in training. You'll find out once u get on line that there is alot of BS involved.... certain things will make you say "God...i dont get paid enough for this"

Example: Anyone who has flown on the east coast for the last 3 days knows that the weather has been miserable. Any of you guys fmailiar with the DCA ramp? Gate 35A?....all the buses were ferrying passengers back and forth...so in a steady downpoor with gusty winds...i had to walk 300 yards to track down the gate agent who took my release by mistake.

Its also little things like passengers thanking you for missing their connections... or cursing out your flight attendant because their carry on fit on the airbus they just flew in....why cant it fit in this airplane? Or working at 16 hour duty day and only getting paid for half of it...with min rest.

Now you can also do what a friend of mine does at RH....he does just the bare minimum thats asked of him becuase he doesnt get paid enough to go the extra mile. He will slam his airplane onto the runway and still take a smiling bow afterwards..."When they start paying me to make nice landings...i'll do them"

Like i said before...you guys deserve a new contract more than any other regional out there....im thankful we are getting our 2001 contract back and we have a fantastic TA compared to the others. But Retro Pay hasnt been settled yet because our pilots and MEC are fighting for whats right. All I was saying was you gotta understand why some of your pilots want to/will vote it down. I heard one of you guys post a few weeks ago that he thought your 700 pilots made "too much money already":confused:. Good luck on your vote guys.

And flybywire...sorry man...its just hard to stay classy as a yankees fan without Joe Torre and watching that dirty ass Manny Ramirez and in World Series :mad:

Flyboy8784, you still can't close....... You've changed so much since training, maybe you should practice my principles...

Look who's talking Mr. I havent closed a deal in almost a year ;)....I've been getting mine

Just one more reason folks need to get their head out of their arses and realize this ain't just an entry-level job anymore. Working for an RJ operator very well could be your LAST job, period...and with every CRJ-900 and E175 delivered that becomes more and more of a reality.

Pilots need to fight and be willing to make sacrifices (including striking) to get compensation and work rules requisite with the responsibility of flying larger aircraft...and if they aren't then they deserve every penny they don't get.

BoilerUp, as always, spot on. I think its shameful when people get excited about 900s for low pay.

Flyboy8784, I am in a state of hibernation my friend.... I do have the best advice.

Well Said Boiler...... i voted to walk in 94(Flagship Airlines/Nashville Eagle)..... along with 98.5% of my brethern...... the union leadership thought otherwise and caved at the last minute..... I will walk anytime...anywhere......

Boiler....thanks for adding to the convo.....you are 100 percent correct as always.

For those of you who care.....I announced a very long drawn out "SCCCCAAAAAABBBBBSSSS" on the radio in ROC yesterday when lindbergh was tryin to call ground.

I was also flipped off by a few jetBlue pilots when i called there E190 a "REGIONAL JET" over the radio, when i was asked to taxi in front of them :D

I was in a bad mood though....broken ACARS...completely fried...blank screen...6 legs of old school w&b...and our left pack was out

Believe me I like GoJets even less than most......but don't let your opinions negatively affect your professionalism. Go-Jet pilots might be scum but they did not technically SCAB.

Besides, completely ignoring a Go-Jet crew when they're trying to make small talk with you says everything you need to say without speaking a word...

Like up in PWM in the hotel shuttle? :D

Now I couldnt care less whether ASA gathers the Crj-900 or the Q400 or more ATR 72's. The whole flying the 900 for regional rates thing is not even relevant for me to speak on as i am new to 121 flying. This whole 'excitement' thing as some of you put it, is mainly for the growth of my carrier. The 900 comes into play because it was mentioned to me and it kind of makes sense. I could care less what i fly, as long as pay is fair, rules of engagement are satisfactory, and i have good QOL, i will be right as rain.:cool:

Speaking of pulling together, I am not "most" pilots as I fly the 700 and am being offered an insulting 1.0% raise (77 cents per hour). Keep in mind this pay rate applies to up to 76 seats now (9% more seats) so the pay increase would need to be 9% more just to remain the same proportionally. Also keep in mind that the large RJ's are where the growth is, and that 200's and ATR's are not.

ASA pilots on the 200 and ATR need to stand unified on this issue and vote no on the TA. Even if you are not willing to stand up for your own brothers and sisters on the 700, realize from a selfish point of view that if you vote no, the TA can ONLY GET BETTER!

One of the most basic rules of negotiating is to never accept the first offer.

Yeah my ACARS never works... Not to mention the FMS...

Or DL can hand more flying to the likes of Mesa or 9E.