Requirememnts to be a Chief Pilot
 

How does one become a Chief Pilot at an airline? Do you have to have a Masters degree in business or something? This is a serious question so please only serious responses. I have never been one to sit and stay at one level. If I do become an airline pilot I dont jst want to fly for 20 to 30 years.

That's exactly why I asked my original question. I have exactly the same thoughts as you.

I don't know if you need any more special requirements other than perhaps seniority, it's not something you can really get experience at. I've seen notices around asking about interest in the position with no special requirements. It doesn't seem to be one of the most popular positions to have, as it basically puts you in between a rock and a hard place with the pilot group looking at you as management, and management looking at you as still a pilot. That's only my very basic understanding from what I have seen.

At the joint I work for, you have to kiss a lot of butt. A LOT. It is all about who you know and whose butt you have kissed and how well you have kissed it. It really has nothing to do with record or ability- I know of a CP who had a big time violation before becoming a CP. CP's make their buddies the asst CP, who then make their buddies the IOE pilots. Again, there is little to do with ability beyond the basics. In fact, I know of at least one IOE CA who is a total a$$ and has no instructional ability. Go figure.

Do you really want to babysit the whiners and clean all the dirty diapers in your pilot group? And be the disciplinarian? :confused: Lame. Do you want to see your pay go to salary, and not even be competitive with the captains at the top of the seniority list? Not to mention becoming top managements whipping boy and the 'bad guy' to the pilots. I've seen all this happen to guys trying to pad their resume, and you know what? Regular line guys (including myself) got the better jobs much faster while they regretted their choice from behind their desk. Just my opinion, but I'm in this business to move metal. And I don't mean a #2 pencil through training folders and employee files.

Ok,I dont want personal opinions of what you may think of Chief Pilots. I am loking for serious information. I am 30 something years old. I could care less if its popular or not. I have a family to take care of and I am the kind of person that wants to be successful.

Right, so why do you associate being the CP as successful?

Then get a job where you can upgrade as fast as you can, become a check airman, then a sim instructor, then an APD. Then if you want to move on to the legacys/majors, apply, and repeat the cycle.

The only thing is, at some legacy/majors you don't have to be able to hold CA to be a sim instructor.

As far as the FAR requirements to become a 121 CP, click here and scroll down to B;

http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Gu...5?OpenDocument

Good point, sometimes it's the "screw up-move up" principle at work.

If being successful is losing all your friends overnight then chief pilot may be a good fit for ya.

Sounds like you should just keep your current job.

haha whats wrong with a becoming a pilot to not fly? the goal in life is to get on with a major early, be really senior, bid reserve and never have to fly because youre so far up the list youll never get called. its a beautiful thing!

if you wanna be a cp go for it but its probably more pain than anything else to be in that job

You have to be political. That's about all. You need seniority to get up there and be known but basically you have to be a sheep in wolf's clothing. Look tough but be ready to roll over when the company needs you to.

Well, of our last four chief pilots: three all had military pilot backgrounds to begin with (C-141, P-3, C-130 I think). Three were instructors and check airmen in the training department after having served as First Officers and line Captains, the other was an instructor (but not check airman) and an expert in aircraft performance and airport arrival/departure planning. All four had at least ten years experience on the second floor of the training building as fleet managers, director of performance planning, or some similar staff related duties in addition to instructing and evaluating. One of them was a former Navy squadron commander; another a USAF Academy grad and chief of a USAF C-141 Standardization/Eval section; only one was entirely civil aviation background but he was an exceptionally skilled aviator, instructor, evaluator, and great judge of character. None of these men had a master's degree to my knowledge, but they each had at least 20 years of aviation experience both on the line and in instructing, evaluating, and staff positions before they were placed as Chief Pilot.
Ours is a major airline with about 1500 pilots.

Under my Alaska65 name, are the words "new hire". How do I change that? For what its worth, I am a 58 year old Captain, pretty senior at my airline.

With an attitude like that, you're a perfect fit for management :eek:

It's nothing against you, it's based on the number of posts you make.

Amen....how do you change your profile specs?.....and at my old airline....GIA...the current Chief Pilot needs 2 years experience at the airline as CPT and kiss the management's ass. Nothing personal against the guy, he's a very well qualified pilot with about 8,000 hours...most of which at GIA and I've flown with him many times.....top notch pilot and a nice guy to boot.

Somebody has to do those jobs.....whether we as line swine like it or not.

Like ERJDriver said, at mesa the selection was based on butt kissing and pro-management (ie alter-ego) behavior.

SKW seems to select folks who have some previous business or military management experience. Knowing people always helps, just like any office job.

If you're looking to further your career, become a check-airman instead.

True dat my toilet-duck buddy!

Thats a personal choice that I have, The same reason I equate being a Colonel with being successful. My goals are just that. Mine. I merely asked for information

You'll make a great chief pilot! Best of luck. ;)

I have friends outsideof aviation. and I think you are exaggerating just a bit

This is the kind of responce I am looking for. Intelligent, to the point and absent of opinion and personal feelings of what they think of CP's.

Thank you very much alaska65

Being a Cheif Pilot does not equal being successful... I just don't know how you can come on here and ask how to be someone who makes most of our lives/jobs worse and then get angry when you get the backlash.

This is like knocking on the door of someone who just got screwed by the IRS and asking if him to tell you how to become an auditor.

If you want advice without emotion let me say this: Get hired, go to work in the training center or some other part of the management building and then upgrade. Become personal friends with the important people (Director of Flight Ops, Cheif Pilots, ect.) and then look to make a bubba deal.

depending where you are , Chief Pilots eventually becoming Director of Operations or DOs, it s very popular on the 135 Charter side, at the AIrlines you can do the same or move over to a VP of Flight Ops or something like that, all those pos. are M-F and pay well into the 6 figure range , I know several guys in that pos. and let me tell you it s worth it...so most CPs are doing it as a stepping stone or to be home more...

Everyone has their own definition of success. For some people success is being a 20 year Captain working 12 days a month. For others, success is being the top of our department. For others, success is being happy no matter what you are doing. My father spent 26 years enlisted in the Air Force. To him that was success. Me, I was enliste in the military, now I am an officer. That is success to me. And my next challeneg I want to be aviation and if I go into I want to go as far as I can. i would do that for any career. I used to be a cop. If I were still doing that, I'd want to be the Chief. If I were in education, I'd wantto be a Principle. Success is what the individual defines it as. Not others defining it for him. If you live to make others happy and to impress others, you will never be happy yourself.

And as far as asking people who get crapped on by Management. This is NOT exclusive to Airline pilots. I visit a Law Enforcement message board called leoaffirs.com. Its the same kind of thing. Cops bashing the department heads and the system. SO what I have learned is Not many people are happy with where they are inlife and people just like to complain.

But thank you very much for your advice. I really do appreciate it

Chief Pilot is deffintly not as far as you can go. I think they call that job CEO or something like that. :D

I don't think being a CP necessarily means you have to be bad. I think it is in how you become a manager and a leader. You can get your pilot group on your side or you can be againts them...your choice. My Dad was a CP at Suthenjets Intranational for a few years and he was very well like by both management and his fellow pilots. He also made sure to treat everyone fairly and he fought for the pilots along with being fair with management.

what is the salary like for a chief pilot at a regional? how about the salary for a check airman?

Order of success:

Line Pilot
Check Airman
Flight attendant
Ramp worker
Janitor
Chief pilot
Homeless/jobless
Serial killer

At least being chief is not at the very bottom. :D

I've been a chief and checkairman and will never do it again.

Your posts remind me of mil guys that come in and from day one aspire to become a General...you know, the kind no one likes to drink with at the bar.:rolleyes:

At both the regionals I worked for, the compensation for CP was in the six figures.

As far as check airman goes, it's usually an hourly override on top his normal rate. $15/18/20 an hour depending on the company.

If you ask some guys, it's simply not enough for some of the grief they go through doing what can be a very difficult job. Not only for flying with new hires/new CA's etc, but sometimes they become scheduling's whipping boy. They may start a trip, then get reassinged because somebody may need some additional OE, or need to have a line check done. Shortening his already short overnight, or extending him past his original release time and affecting his QOL.

Yep, everybody has their own definition of success. Some of the finer points of being a "success" as the CP for a company;

You get to call a pilot and ask him why he calls in sick too much or why his sick bank is so low.

You get to call a pilot on his phone, and ask him why he was 3 minutes late, probably not his fault.

You will get to have the DO call you up and ask why the above is happening, and insist that YOU come up with new and stupid policies to fix it.

You will get to have a pilot come into your office whining about what scheduling is doing to him. If he only read his contract once in a while.

You will get to fend off calls from alpa/union reps about your draconion procedures. Telling you that if you flew the line once and a while, you would pull your head out of your butt.

You get to put up messages on the computers telling everybody to do something differently because somebody screwed something up operationally.

You get be woken up at 12 midnight because a CA is PO'd at ops/scheduling/ramp about something and he decided to call his immediate boss, YOU.

You think you are going home for the day, get called from scheduling saying there is an uncovered turn that needs a CA, and YOU are the only one that can do it. And its your kids/wife B-day.

You will get to call in a respected CA and tell him that some new FO who didn't have the balls to tell him to his face, or the brains to go to pro stands reported him as being unsafe.

You will get ask a new hire FO why he got a thumbs down on an probationary FO report, also, the CA didn't have the balls to counsel the FO himself, just went behind his back. Then you get to call that CA in and ask him what the hell his problem is.

You will get to call a CA into your office, and tell him that he is under investigation for sexual harassment by a female FO/FA for something that never happened, chick is just psycho. You may get to fire him if her lawyer was better than ALPA's. Bummer if the guy was a friend of yours.

You will get to call in a CA/FO and tell him that they are under investigation because somebody saw them drinking on an overnight. You may get to fire them if it's true. Again, bummer if you knew the guy. Not saying what they did was right.

You may be in a position where you are asked to fire a pilot for something that's not really a big deal, but because the DO wants an example set. You may elect to defend the pilot for obvious reasons, and then you get fired from CP because of it. Again, the guy may be your friend, bummer.

You will get to have FA's come in crying about their drama and thinking that you can do something about it because you are the only person around in management.

You will get to be a secretary for your pilots because they are tired of having their paychecks messed up and want you to do something about it because you are the CP.

Anybody else got any lovely things they have seen a great, successful CP get to go through?

If you'd like some more advice, maybe you should learn to write. Writing in complete sentences will help your credibility in management. Using correct forms of capitalization and punction will also aid you in this endeavor. That being said, I do enjoy your random usage of majuscules, though.

Otto, my brotha, you were a Chief Pilot here at Express? EWR?

Good luck, I have suggested this to him on more than one occasion.

Very well put.

My plans consist of completing one of two routes. One is to obtain an MBA w/an a.o.c. in either Finance or Industrial Operations while enjoying a career on the flight deck. After enjoying a number of years on the flight deck, I could go into either department or Flight Ops. My other choice would be to pursue the office of "Vocational Deacon" while enjoying a flying career. Upon retirement from the airlines become a "Transitional Deacon" then, ordained as a Priest.

This is what I would call success just as N6724G has his view and everyone else has his own take on what success means to them. It's all relative.



atp

apparently the chief pilots at ASA are getting nice paycuts as per the new contract, so they are leaving and now they can't train enough FO's to CA fast enough. I dunno, just my .02 FWIW.

Well, I dont drink, so I dont know, and like I said before. All my friends arent neccessarily my coworkers. i have a life outside of my job. You should not live to please others and make them like you. You should live to support your family. When you get over 30 years old, you will realize that