Yea I'm sure flying the sim was fun, but it isn't even close to the real world of flying the line. So take your observations with a grain of salt.

Haha...awesome :D

An interesting counter to what you said earlier about taking a course to prevent getting behind N6724G:

I don't care who you are, if you didn't feel behind during the sim, transition course or not, you're a damn liar. My partner and I didn't feel like we "got it" until the second to last sim session before our checkrides. We both did fine.

How do you counter this? You study. We met for a couple hours before each session to go through flows and callouts. We chair flew, we studied together, we used our experience as instructors to our advantage. Neither of us had ever been in a jet sim, I had never been in the front of anything bigger than a 414 prior to starting the sim. It was fast and furious but you're not going to have an instructor sitting back there expecting you to fly a single engine, raw data ILS with the hydraulics failed while drawing a detailed diagram of the electrical system.

TSA's training is regarded as a real ballbuster. However, our instructor went out of his way to help those that felt they were behind. He would stick around during breaks, sometimes at lunch to go over things. We had study groups, and a couple line pilots volunteered their time to help us too. Yes, a couple that made the effort didn't make it. There were about five in our class that had an attitude problem, they had CRJ sim time so they knew this stuff. None of them made it to the sim. Go back to the hotel after class, relax for an hour then hit the books and prepare for the next day. Every night spend 20 minutes out of the book and working on flows and callouts. If you do this, you'll be fine. Another thing that I think is dangerous about the course is what may happen if the company doesn't fly a CRJ, or worse (in my opinion) they do things totally different from how you learned them in the transition course. Now you're learning how to do things while unlearning the habits you've developed.

I know the stakes are high. I decided to instruct longer than I needed to becuase I didn't feel like I was ready to jump to the jet. I'm glad I waited. Had the worst happened, I had options. With my time I didn't have that last year. You sound like a smart guy. When the time comes to make the jump you'll be fine as long as you attack.

If you have access to a frasca, fly the fastest aircraft they have on there, and set up about a 50kt tailwind. If you can handle that, you can handle the jet with no problem. Find a plane with glass to fly if your school doesn't have one. This will also help if you haven't done it yet and 10 hours will still be much cheaper than just as much time in a CRJ sim.

It's not the spelling or grammar. It's the laziness.

24G,

It sounds to me like you have pretty much made up your mind about taking a jet transition course. There is nothing wrong with that, if you have the cash laying around. It may help to build your confidence during the interview process, and during initial training. I also get the feeling that you are not a 250 hour wiz-kid, looking for the first shiny jet job you can find. If that's the case, take some time (within reason, we all know that seniority rules) and do your homework. Figure out where you really want to work. What equipment are they flying? What do their HR people say? What does their training department say?

Eagle told me, point blank I should go to ATP, and take a CRJ course. I simply wasn't willing to borrow eight grand to "maybe" get a $20K/yr job. (Would I pay for a B737 type after being offerd a position at SWA...hell yes)

At Express Jet the concensus seemed to be; "With your time, why the hell would you spend $8K, on something like that, when we are going to teach you anyway?"

If you do decide to take one of those courses, try to find one that makes sense. There are a lot of them out there. Choose, only after you have a pretty good idea that it will help you get, and train, for a job someplace that you really want to work. I wouldn't suggest a CRJ course, right before starting EMB-120 school. The primacy, and negative transfer of learning might hurt as much as it helps.

I am a new FO, and was a Gold Seal CFI, with over 1500 hours of dual given, when I started training on the ERJ-145. However, I had never flown anything faster than a C-310, and had very little instrument time. I'll be honest with you, training was tough for me. During training, I found myself wishing I had some previous sim time, in a jet, so I know where you are coming from. What I really needed was more varied flying experience.

Now, I feel like the CFI experience helped me more than any "train before you train" kind of program ever would have. I hear this again and again from the Captains I fly with, as well. I am also damn glad that I am not another $8K in debt on first year FO pay.

Just my two cents. Your milage may vary.

This 'guy' is saying that you will somehow regret that your time as a CFI will be time that was wasted. Obviously I disagree with him as well.

Instructing builds good social and working skills you'll use everyday in interacting with CA's, FO's, FA's, the ramp, and CSA's. You learn to read and interpret people better, and adapt your style and approach to get the best out of them. You learn to be a manager and leader. Your decision making ability, conflict resolution skills, and critiquing ability increase. You become a more professional Pilot, no doubt, as a result of being an engaged and introspective CFI.

Good luck. Network!

good post, Gravelly...

I also agree that CFI'ing does do all that for a young Pilot, though I don't think we all require several years of it LoL...

I'll put any new military pilot up against one from a pilot mill. No comparison. "Johnny Jet Pilot" from a mill didn't walk through the gates at UPT with 13 hrs in a C-150 and within 4 months, be soloing in wingtip formation.

Those 300 hr AF (or any military pilot) pilots got those hrs in a much shorter time frame, and much more intense flying, than the 500 f/o did.

Here's the problem though. An ASA recruiter called me and wont eevn let me come to an interview unless I have some type of jet transition course or jet training. So I cant even get in te door.

True. But check this out. I am in Civil Air Patrol. We had a cadet who was very serious about flying. He got his ratings all the way up to CFI. While still a cadet. He went to fly for the airlines at age 22. Then after two or three years he went into the military to fly.

I mean no offense by this, but take the blinders off. If ASA wants a transition course, move on to the next regional on your list. everybody is hiring. If they are giving you a hard time because your multi time is low (I'm assuming this). You would be better off spending the cash on a MEI and/or getting your multi hours up.
I agree with everything positive said about CFI'ing. I've been a part time CFII/MEI for several years now and nothing teaches you how to deal with people better. The MEI takes that to the next level. These people skills come in handy when you are on a trip with "that" captain or FO.
Good luck, I would hold on to the $$.

I'd also hold on to the $$, they would be better spent somewhere else. It's possible that ASA is your top pick of regionals, and if that's the case, see what they'd require you to do to get hired. Splitting time with someone for 8 grand in a twin might make more sense, plus it'll make you more marketable to everyone, not just companies who like jet familiarization courses.

The reasoning the majority of pilots out here believe you don't need a jet transition course is because the majority of us didn't need one either. Some of us learn quicker than others. The key is to be willing to study, read your books, know your callouts, know your flows. A jet course WILL teach you to do things wrong, this is true because they're generic. And EVERY company flies the airplane differently, some fly 180 kts on the base leg, flaps clean, some flaps down, some do 200 knots until turning final, etc. It'd be nice to "see" things in a simulator, but it'd be much nicer to not have to go against the law of primacy and re-learn everything the RIGHT way....i just see the course as being a possible hindrance to your training, and not necessarily a benefit. just my .02

Shoot...worse case scenario...

Get hired at PSA, work there for a few months, and jump ship once you get hired at ASA? Not the best way to go about it...but at least you won't have to pay for the training and familiarization!

Oh boy, back on the nines again. Great airplanes. Worked on them when I was at KBLV when I was a young troop..

Douglas built great airplanes. Period.

I'm pretty well tired of hearing this "what happens when all the automation breaks?" crap. If you're an FO flying a modern jet in a situation that involves both FDs being broken and the captain unable to fly (for whatever reason), things are probably bad enough that you're going to die regardless of how well you can fly raw data.

Maybe as an F/O being a CFI doesn't add to it. But, think about ALL the newhire F/O's coming online and you're a NEW Captain! You will need that 3rd sense a CFI has so you don't kill everybody!

knowledge, experience, ohhhh and getting paid and not spending anymore money to fly! I agree with XJpilot1, when you become a captain guess what you will be doing again.......thats right flight instructing but from the left seat cause your first officer has the minimum required for a commercial certificate.

A jet transition course is valuble, no matter what anyone else says. When I was in training, all of those who failed had no expierence in a jet or a transition course. Its not that you won't have to study all the companies profiles, procedures.. bla bla bla, you will. But the first 2-4 sims when everyone else is learning what all the knobs and switches do instead of working through the lessons, you will already be working on more of the procedures so the first time you see a V1 cut isn't at sim 5-6. Is it worth 8Gs? Thats debateable, but it will definately help you in training. I saw a guy in my class with 3000 plus hours, much of it single pilot IFR in a caravan, guess what, he was lost in the CRJ, with a transition course the learning curve wouldn't have been too steep for him. CFIing and gaining hours in a senica will not help you in a CRJ (or equivalent) on the same level as one of those courses, period. FInd a cheaper one, or maybe buy a couple lessons familiarizing yourself in an FTD of the type of aircraft you intend to fly at your next job.

With few exceptions, if you can't pass airline training without taking an intro course, you probably don't yet belong in an airliner. It's amazing how thousands of guys successfully made it through training before these RJ courses popped up.:rolleyes:

If you don't have the skills to make it in a new job without buying time in type, you may need to save your money and find something else to do. If you are a competent, experienced pilot you should have no trouble being proficient in an aircraft after being trained on it. If you have to buy time to be able to pass company training, then you aren't ready...period. Being a cfi will help you become a more competent pilot than just about anything else especially if you go from that to night single pilot ifr flying cargo or something.

You are sooo right!