N6724G

Yesterday, I had the opportunity to fly a MD-90 sim at a major airline training center. I had a great time. I realize now that a lot of folks on her eare right. Pilots definantly need to be paid more thanthey are to do what they do. Flying a jet is a totally differant experience than flying light twins or GA aircraft.

SO I have strenghtened my position that CFIing I do not believe will help you be a better part 121 FO on a jet. I am a CFI and nothing I learned inCFI school or anything Ipractice today as a CFI is going to help. I was introduced yesterday to auto throttles ( I had never heard of this before, it was amazing) Spoliers, speed brakes, and other things I NEER learned about in GA training.

So, please tell me again how does CFIing prepare you fo this? I need to refocus my attention if I am going to do this airline pilot thing. I need to become profieicant in jets and their systems.

KiloAlpha

AT's will make you lazy and destroy that element of your piloting skill set; but... It is nice to always cross the fence at exactly Vapp will not effort whatsoever

Tinpusher007

While its true that flying a jet in the 121 environment is very different from GA flying, the importance of being a CFI is more mental than stick and rudder. Its about knowing regs ans being very strong with instrument skills and scan because they DO NOT teach you those things at an airline. There are skills that you build as a CFI that will help you that you might not even realize. For example, staying ahead of the airplane. When you're two steps ahead of your instrument student while he/she is flying an approach...that alone will help you tremendously when you transition to a jet because things happen so much faster. If you think you are ready and you meet mins, then hang up your CFI wings and start applying. But please don't discount the experience totally.

TristarJS30

CFI'ing is EXTREMELY valuable.

You'll see how other people think and act... and sometimes the response you thought they'd give is not any where close to how they actually react. You'll be called upon to thoroughly think about your student and your student's lesson (to be a good CFI anyway.) Remember, to be a good CFI, you should be able to teach to 1st graders (in my opinion anyway). Dumb it down so that anyone can understand, then once they get the concept you make it more advanced. It's all about advanced thought process.... highly important in a fast moving jet.

I have to ask, did you go to a major flight academy or a small FBO? I ask because the major academies (ATP, Pan Am, etc) typically use a streamlined syllabus that is just enough for you to pass the check-ride. In some cases, they teach you enough just to pass your particular DE's oral exam. It's up to your personal instructor to teach you more than just what the syllabus calls for.

Some small FBO's do this as well, but in my experience, the smaller 'mom-and-pop' FBO's take time to personalize your training and teach you things you otherwise wouldn't learn elsewhere.

As far as reaching your CFI and having never heard of autothrottles, spoilers or speedbrakes... pick up an issue of "Flying" magazine.

bvipilot

Some people might have a few things to say about this thread.

I have been a flight instructor for this past two years. I just recently started flying the Embraer 170. (just finished IOE)

All that I am going to say is that I felt that my two years as a flight instructor was the MOST VALUABLE training experience that I could have ever gotten. There will be time to learn jet aircraft systems when you get to a jet aircraft.

When you go to airline pilot training, they are not teaching you how to fly, they teach you a transition into that aircraft. I have seen many people with a fresh commercial pilots license think that they know everything. If you fall into this catagory, trust me, you don't know anything yet. I am not saying that I do. Now that I am in this jet aircraft, I feel like a fumbling student again. But, I know that with time and experience I will get proficient in this aircraft too. But, I would not think for a second that I could step into this position that I am in now without all the valuable experience that flight instruction gave me.

Just out of curiosity, how many hours do you have at this point?

N6724G

Oh, dont get me wrong. I am not one of those folks tha tinstruct to build time. I do not like those kinds of instructors. I LOVE teaching. I used to be a school teacher. I mean even if I do become an airline pilot, I will still actively flight instruct. I will never let my certs expire. I was just saying I dont see how it will help you become a better 121 FO. Instructing i a valuable skill that makes you a better pilot. But I just dont see how it makes you a better airline pilot. Even talking about instrument skills. You arent the one shooting the approach. You are coaching someone else. So your skills will deteriate unless you get in a sim or something and manipulate the contraols yourself. Sitting in the right seat and talking someone throough a hold will help your situational awareness and help you plan and stay ahead of the plane but your motor skills arent being improved. But you all bring up some good points.

N6724G

Going from 0 hours to CFI was a process that took 12 years at many local flying clubs. I was in the Army overseas. I ran out of money for a few years and I have deployed for six months to 18 months tours. So, it was alengthy process but it wasnt at one specific place.

N6724G

Once again, I have 650 hours.I love instructing. Remember my old post? I gave a scholorship to a youg girl who I am teaching. I volunteer with a youth organization wher I give volunteer ground instruction. I used to teach elementary school and I enjoy teaching very much.

Pilotpip

Instruction doesn't prepare you at all for playing FO. What it should be preparing you for is anticipation and command of an aircraft. I used to love when a student would get behind a plane on final. Take a look at the terrain and you'll almost be able to predict it. Why does this matter in a jet? You don't want to get slow in a swept-wing aircraft. Being able to predict and be ahead of the plane is critical when you have a crossing restriction to make, and that 150kt tailwind is getting you there awfully fast. It's going to help when the trend line starts dropping down the PFD, you're sinking, and the engines aren't spooling up fast enough for you, which results in too much power and all of a sudden you gain 20kts on short final. If you can see what's going to happen with your student, let them make mistakes and still be able to save the day before things get bad you'll be able to make the transition much more easily.

Instructing makes you a better pilot. Those skills you gain will only help when you get in the real jet where the learning curve is steep and things suddenly are happening about 5 times faster than what you're familiar with.

Go jump in a complex, high performance aircraft with a relatively low time private pilot if you haven't done that yet. It will be just as eye opening. It's amazing how much "faster" things happen when you're trying to think like two people.

I instructed for two years as well. I'm very happy I did and I don't think I would have survived training if I had gone to an airline after only a couple months of instructing. The learning curve is so steep that I don't I could have handled it while trying to learn how to fly an aircraft and learning what my limitations are.

Clue32

You hit the nail on the head with the hours issue. Whether you get the minimum flight time to get hired by your preferred airline through flight instruction, the military, part 135 charter, or flying bank checks in the middle of the night doesn't matter. What I think matters is that you get QUALITY flight time and a VARIETY of experiences. Any job that you get flying should prepare you to make the jump into bigger, faster, more complex aircraft. Your college education and maturity level should prepare you for the challenging airline training programs. The rub is that with terribly low minimums at the regional airlines new hire FO's don't have to get that quality and varied experience. The first time they may fly an ILS down to minimums at a busy Class C or B airport in icing may be with 50 unwitting passengers on board. Paying for cheap 152 time flying back and forth between West Podunk and Podunk Falls in order to meet application minimums, however, won't prepare anyone for an airline job.

My boss was talking to me about his lithmus test for qualifying new pilots in command in our organization and I think it can be applied to determining if you are up to the challenge to being an airline pilot. 1) Be able to fly the aircraft (we've got BE20s) single pilot in normal, challening, and emergency situations and bring it home safely. 2) Be able to take control of the aircraft from the co-pilot when they put it into a dangerous situation and save the crew and aircraft from disaster. 3) Be able to teach and mentor young pilots and prepare them to become PICs.

Flying students around that have no idea how to fly and are trying to kill you every time you blink and eventually teaching them how to successfully pilot an aircraft without bending any metal accomplishes the three previous points.

Just because you may know nothing about flying an MD-90 or E-170 or DH8 doesn't mean that you can't jump into an airline with them and learn. That is why airlines have training programs.