SkyWest and Southwest
 

I was at sim the past few days and I kept hearing about the "Southwest rumour". As much as I just want to laugh and think everone is nuts, part of me thinks there could be some truth to this rumor. If it's true, it leaves two realities. SkyWest grows a bunch more, the hope of moving to a major takes another step backwards.

Not quite...if it were true, we'd probably be doing addt'l flying, not replacement flying - routes that can't support a 737 (when WN goes in, they take no prisoners with 8 non-stops to everywhere haha). It would be great in that you upgrade quick...but bittersweet nonetheless.

What a crazy world. We'll just have to wait and see. This is one of those times I can't help but be flabbergasted - plausible and insane at the same time, it just boggles my mind haha.

apparently this rumor was started by southwest pilots to lock up their upcoming contract. Some of their pilots knew that their contract had gaps in it that needed to be filled. They started spreading around rumors of management fishing for regional codeshare which their current contract neglected to specifically dis-allow. Their new contract (it isnt official yet) is much more aggressive against codesharing, co-ops, and interline agreements but no one knows what the final wording will be in their "regional codeshare" section.

i would bet... almost guarantee that if sky west was given a codeshare with southwest that their pilots would have a little something to say. Especially when the rest of their new contract has a pretty awesome scope clause. There are also a lot of too far fetched things about the original rumor for me to believe. 100 90 seater's? too close to the 737 and way to large of an order for an untested adventure. very unlike southwest's business model and thoughts on cut throat business.

They are discussing this in the Majors category on this forum with more detailed info on their scope. check it out.

There's as much truth to this rumor as there is to the 170 for CAL rumor at RAH. At least most of the people at RAH know it ain't gonna happen....

Agreed...but it certainly makes for good conversation!

Everyone has said Skywest will have another partner next year. I say US Air to take Mesa's place? The only thing I can see Southwest wanting a 100 seat airplane for is international ops. However, with ATA, I'm not sure if they need that?

I agree - Mesa is on the way out at USAir...and we may be in a good position...Also, curious when IAD-flying for UAL will materialize. It's just a matter of time.

Everybody got excited a while back when we first got Jepp's for IAD...what they failed to realize was that we had been flying ATLIAD in the CR9...don't see it on the route-map anymore however. JetJock16 - anything to add?

Unfortunately our flying in ATL is decreasing every month. I’ve flown ATL-HOU more than any other ATL route and in JAN 9E will get the honors. It’s OK, it’s not a reduction in SKW flying seeing that every block hour pulled from ATL gets added somewhere out west. From an Email we received it looks like we’ll be down to a fraction of our current fly by the end of next summer. Although they tell us they will not close the base seeing there are routes that 9E can't fly due to their contract with NWA. Instead they will maintain ATL’s current size and flow us through DEN, ORD and SLC. In NOV I had two trips that included ORD CR7 flying and third had me spend a day in the DEN system.

I can see it now, by the end of next year the only destinations we will have in ATL is MSP, MEM & DTW (all NWA domiciles)! LOL!

As for SWA flying...............no I don't think so. Although I do think we will get more UAL flying seeing that we've proven to be their go to guys, poor JO! :D

Not sure about the US Airways flying, I know AWAC and RAH will get the majority of it but we might end up with something.

Only time will tell, the only thing I'm sure of is that most of it will come at Mesa's expense.

Absolutely...it's too bad for a lot of people that JO never learned how to play nice, and actually be human ::gasp::

UAL it is.

Skywest will need some 700's in ATL, were doing ASE to ATL in FEB. As far as I understood, we only have 900's in ATL. Still not sure where the plane will come from. It will have to start in SLC?

sad, but what does he care, he has made his millions...................and the sad thing is the people he has abused over the years let him

So back to the Southwest/SkyWest rumor...

The fact that they are reducing their hiring and growth next year provides a little more of a possibility. Also, our company wants a new pay scale in by January 1st. My guess is to get an accurate cost of flight crews for the future. At most airlines, rumors never happen. However from the people who have been at SkyWest long enough to have heard rumors before, they say most rumors at SkyWest happen.

I still can't see it happening. But as I have said before, ask any legacy guy if he thought rj's would have the presence they have in today's world. RJ900 SLC - PIT? Wow...

CR7's in ATL being flown by ATL crews……………not going to happen! Yes I'm sure they will flow SLC and DEN ASE crews out and back but because of the special training involved it just wouldn't make sense to reserve ATL crews specifically for ASE (like they do in SLC & DEN).

Mark my words; no ATL crew will touch a CR7 out of ATL unless it's a deadhead!

If SkyWest was awarded any sort of flying with Southwest, it scores another victory for management and ultimately the guys that get crapped on are the Southwest guys.

Just another regional F'n up anyone's dreams of being a mainline pilot.

With that being said, the SkyWest/Southwest rumor to me has little credibility. It'd make little sense for the SWA business model. Most SWA guys that you bring this up to laugh at it.

Thank you for seeing beyond the short-sightedness of some SkyWest guys, its ultimately a loss if it happens

SWA has almost tapped out their market niche...city pairs which can support several 737's each day. In order to continue growth they will have to leave their niche...personally I applaud their tremendous discipline in staying in their proven, profitable niche for so long.

To continue significant growth, they need to expand their paradigm with new airplanes (either larger or smaller, but smaller makes more sense) and/or new operational philosophies. There are several ways they could do this:

- Buy RJ's and fly them themselves. The upside is it would make pilots happy...the downsides are numerous: new training, new Mx, new ground handling, new computer systems, etc, etc. They could probably fit RJ's into their existing operational model, ie operate them just like 73's but in smaller markets.

- Code share with an existing airline(s): Actually they are already doing this with ATA to cover markets which the 73 and their OPSPEC is not suitable for (international and over-water). International ops DO NOT fit into SWA's operational model because a "quick turn" with a trip through customs can take 2 hours. The idea of using an RJ code share to get into Mexico is not that far fetched...especially since mexico is an appealing destination for SWA's bread-and-butter customer: low-end leisure travellers.

- Sub-contract a regional provider. The downside to this is that they will have to sign a long-term contract, and it will probably be fee-for-departure (ie all the risk is on SWA for making the business model work). The upside is that they could achieve very tight control over operational details (paint schemes, crew uniform, pax handling, etc) to preserve a seamless SWA experience for the pax.

I agree that the SWAPA pilots have a HUGE amount of control over which way this goes. But it's possible that they might allow some outsourced flying in order to enhance the core business on which they all depend. Replacing 73's with RJ's probably won't be allowed, but they might decide that a limited outsourced RJ operation poses less threat to their job security than a risky re-engineering of the SWA core business model to include in-house RJ's. The good news here is that the SWA pilots WILL have a significant say in the matter...unlike most of the rest of us.

Do you actually think a regional airline is forcing mainline Mgmnt to off load flying? :confused:

Do you think that regional airlines sit around thinking about how they can ruin THEIR industry and the careers of THEIR pilots? :confused:

Please, Mgmnt does what Mgmnt feels they have to do in order to further their company’s futures! After all, most of the airlines out there are simply supporting cast. They’re motives are to grow and remain profitable by positioning themselves so that their services are attractive to mainline carriers. This has been the basic business model for feeder airlines since the beginning of codesharing.

If a carrier feels that they can improve their business by acquiring supporting cast then they will do so and only they will decide at what level to acquire those services.

Don’t forget the three basic principles of life………….Adapt, Move or Die!

BTW, I am not saying SKW will start feeding SWA but to say it will never happen or that a regional is ruining our industry is asinine.

If Southwest were to add RJ's to its fleet... SWA pilots would have to fly them.

Outsourced, fee for departure RJ feed would destroy Southwest's proven, profitable business model by jacking up their CASM and torpedoing their marketing strategy.

Southwest pilots have had PLENTY of opportunity to sit back and watch what has happened to the careers of their colleagues at legacies who have allowed progressively larger jet aircraft to be outsourced. Anything is possible...but for this reason alone I don't think this rumor is probable.

Forcing? No.

Attracting regional services by flying flashy DC-9 sized jets for wages 50% less than the DC-9 guys make? Absolutely.

Management will always look for a way to off load wages and costs to increase net profit. You're a fool if you believe that regionals haven't given mainline management a reason to not hire 190 or 737 pilots/aircraft or use -900's as leverage in pay negotiations with mainline pilots.

I can see there is plenty of Kool-Aid over at SkyWest. You must've been one that voted out ALPA.

I catch your drift here..

Cant wait to see a certain Utah based company acquire the -1000's and ultimately keep the pay the same for -700, -900, and -1000 while supplying mainline with 100+ jets at a fraction of the cost. Great way to keep the pilot group healthy isn't it? Hope you enjoy SKYW enough to stay there for the rest of your life.

Glad someone gets it.

OBVIOUS...

So what you’re saying is that your previous statement was absolutely wrong, seeing that the root of the problem (what screwing up our industry) is mainlines choice to off load their flying. As far as the pay, it's a joke and no were did I say that I was in agreement with it. Mainline took advantage of the regionals ability to keep cost low and now it's our duty to flight for what's right.

its really simple, if regional pilots got paid what they should be getting paid, there would be no regionals, only regional Jets, flown by junior mainline pilots..............not rocket science folks

Jump down off that soap box, bud!

I have almost a decade of managerial experience and I was only speaking from that position. By no means am I a COMPLETE supporter of their decisions, it's just completely ignorant to think the way you do. Regionals are not the root of our problem it’s just the movement of our industry into its next cyclical phase. Like I said……..Adapt, Move or Die! It’s know time that we flight to adapt the pay we deserve and when a new phase presents it’s self we will have to flight then as well. Are you ready for that or are you scared of change?

BTW...........I voted Yes for APLA, but if you had more than a dozen or so postings, you'd know that.

You must've learned that in your "10 years" of management experience.

Regionals are not the root, you're correct there. It's regionals flying mainline sized jets for pennies on the dollar and pilots accepting that.

You'd be great at airline management. I can hear you now to a new hire regional class.. "Guys, a 737 is not much bigger than what you're already flying. The pay is $5 more an hour. Its this or get closed out."

You sound like a broken record, dwelling on what's happened and not focusing on how to change. Coming on here and attacking others based upon your assumptions isn't going to get us anywhere!

I'm fighting but I’m not fighting my fellow brethren like you are. You should know, that is if you’re actually an airline pilot, that when you're apart of a labor group one voice can easily be drowned out. BUT over time that voice can create an echo that will hopefully redirect the voices of others. Remember that Rome wasn’t built in a day and it took the efforts of millions!

Pilots drown themselves through supporting labor practices of certain airlines. You should know that.

I dont support certain "fellow brethren". Should I support guys at GoJet, Skybus, Virgin, TSA, or any other airline that accpets sub par everything in exchange to be called a pilot? We make our own beds.

/done

i had a debate with jetlock in another thread. your wasting your breath. He thinks his 70-90 seater is the wave of the future and anything you say contrary to that will only force him to revert to childish name calling and beating his chest on how he wants to fight for a future.

Some people just wont get it. He probably managed 10 yrs at a petsmart or other retail chain where catchy phrases like "building rome..." "adapt, move die..." were in their quarterly reports. Since he is obviously gods greatest gift to the airlines you cant talk any sense into him. Its comical thinking there are people on that big of an ego trip in this industry but it is also the reason for a lot of our problems.

save it jetlock i really dont care for your tirade about how everybody but you is stupid. Maybe you should listen to the dozens of people on here telling you your wrong instead of beating your chest in the corner with the two people that support your position.

The exact reason why I don't fly for Mesa or GoJet. I chose to hold out for an airline that at least as shown they appreciate their pilots and have done so for over 35 years. That’s 35 years of growth with no furloughs and no pay cuts, all while keeping the same Mgmnt in place. Yes I never even sent a resume into MAG, GoJet, PSA, TSA or any other of the bottom feeder carriers. My list was very short, SKW and XJT are the only who regional carriers I wanted to start my professional pilot career with.

Over a year ago my pilot group voted in a BS pay proposal that wasn't even worth the paper it was written on (I obviously voted NO). It was good through 2011 but Mgmnt has now decided that they want to pay us more and is currently working to increase all of our rates by Jan 1st. Now show me another airline that would no that. They obviously don't have too but they WANT too. Not SWA, UPS or any other airline for that matter would think about such a gesture of good well until after their contract had expired. Yes the pay won't be what it should be but we’ll just have to keep working until it is and I’m in this industry for the long haul. Are you or are you going to whine and then cut and run?

Really, it seems that you are on a very short list. I don't have to prove myself to you or anyone else but I do find it hilarious that you feel the need to degrade me. Did I sleep with your girl or something?

Take your juvenile shots; you're just another example of the blind supporting the blind. The industry is cyclical and fighting each other isn’t going to change it. But you obviously understand this? :rolleyes:

Yes I do feel that 80-110 seat a/c will be a huge part of our future regardless of whether regional or mainline pilot are flying them. But I do hope anything above 76 seats goes to mainline seeing they've already let the cat out of the bag on 76 and below.

BTW, this isn’t some radical opinion. I think it's obvious the industry is continuing to change and resisting will only cause you to have health problems.

Kool-Aid at SkyWest is ice cold and served often.

You're pilot group has no choice but to accept exactly what management feeds up being a non-unionized carrier. Just look at your -900 pay or lack thereof. Again, the Kool-Aid you're drinking must be delicious. Is it grape?

CAL didnt. American didn't. I've got a lot of respect for those guys for that simple fact.

Did you miss the part where I said I voted NO for our current pay policy? And having respect for the job our Mgmnt is doing doesn't make me a pilot hater. They’ve done an outstanding job with the resource they been given and will continue to do so regardless of what I or you think. I say this based upon business facts not opinions, their history speaks for itself.

As far as our choices, stating the obvious isn't hard to do.

BTW, they let us choose you flavor and it's served with an entire meal! What does your company give you, spam? :D

Take a look around, other than SWA tell me whose Mgmnt has done a better job than ours and then prove it. You can't!

And so do I, but I've heard CAL's on the verge! Every mainline concession allows for another green horn to get a job and a battle weathered vet to potentially take a seat, regardless of what you think I do not agree with this. Who could, seeing it ultimately weakens our future.

My Father was senior Braniff CA so I fully understand how cyclical our industry is.

That right there show's your insight.

CAL is nowhere close to giving in. Apparently you didn't see or hear their MEC's latest response to the pressure. In summary, it said hell no.

LOL!!!

Who are you dude? Jerry's love slave?