US Express Crash

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12-20-2007 | 05:25 AM

#21

plasticpi

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Blkflyer

SPECI KPVD 160945Z 04014KT 1SM R05/5500VP6000FT -SNPL BR BKN005 OVC050 M04/M06 A3012 RMK AO2 PLB44 PRESFR P0003

METAR KPVD 160951Z 04013KT 1 1/4SM -SNPL BR SCT005 OVC050 M04/M06 A3012 RMK AO2 PLB44 PRESFR SLP198 P0004 T10391056

They were executing the ILS to RW05 according to the weather at the time the winds were about a 12 knot head wind and a 2 knot left cross wind but the weather in the METAR also showd PRESFR Pressure Falling Rapidly so maybe they had some wind shear their was also Light Snow and Ice Pellet in the weather as well I am not going to speculate I am just happy that no one was hurt.

Guys remember this winter weather flying can be a challange .. Fly Safe Yall

Wasn't the time of the accident around 1700 local? That'd be 2300Z... these metars are from about 0500 local.

12-20-2007 | 05:38 AM

#22

Flyboy8784

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From: ThE jEtTtTtTtT

Quote:

Originally Posted by fosters

Why does the anti-skid give you an uneasy feeling? It gives me a warm and fuzzy feeling knowing it's there.

Well its like locking up your car on a ice patch and the ABS kicks in....its not a pleasant feeling...but your right...afterward your like "Man...good thing i have it"

The TR's on the CRJ work pretty well, ill go full reverse on a snowy runway and save my brakes for under 80Kts....think about it....if they touched down at MLW i think Ref+5 is 144kts....it would be very easy to lose directional control at that speed when you get on the brakes...granted you bleed off energy as soon as you touch down...but its still very fast

12-20-2007 | 05:40 AM

#23

Slice

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From: Spartan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyboy8784

i think its better to get on the reverse first...then slowly apply brakes....i dont really trust the anti-skid....it gives you quite the uneasy feeling....its a huge relief that everyone was ok

In the CRJ with a x-wind component, you are better off using brakes w/ idle reverse. Blend in more thrust as the a/c slows. Reversers first will amplify the weathervaning tendency of the a/c when used at higher speeds. I'd be surprised if your aircraft/ops manual didn't reference this somewhere.

12-20-2007 | 06:11 AM

#24

PeanutButter

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ref+5 at MLW in the CL-65 is 146...

12-20-2007 | 06:24 AM

#25

Blkflyer

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From: Cessna 152 Captain

Quote:

Originally Posted by plasticpi

Wasn't the time of the accident around 1700 local? That'd be 2300Z... these metars are from about 0500 local.

METAR KPVD 162151Z 05003KT 1 1/2SM BR OVC003 03/02 A2896 RMK AO2 DZE2058RAB2058E39 PRESFR SLP805 P0004 T00330022

SPECI KPVD 162157Z 02005KT 1 1/2SM BR OVC003 03/02 A2895 RMK AO2 SFC VIS 2 PRESFR ACFT MSHP

I stand Corrected, thats what happen when you are sleep deprived, even better the winds were right down the Runway but the Pressure was still Falling Rapidly I still am not going to speculate, because we were not there. I am just happy no one was hurt

12-20-2007 | 07:41 AM

#26

fosters

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Quote:

Originally Posted by boilerpilot

This is probably coming from somebody who's never used anti-skid. It works, but it's definitely weird. It doesn't grab like it should, especially on snow,

Oh course not silly - if it "grabbed" as you put it, you'd skid. The cool think about antiskid is the "ANTI" part of skidding, which allows you to keep it under control no matter how hard you mash those brakes.

12-20-2007 | 08:31 AM

#27

Flyboy8784

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From: ThE jEtTtTtTtT

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slice

i agree.... and thats normal practice with a long runway....cuz you have plenty of room to work with....but the winds at the time were 20 degrees off at 5 knots...not nearly enough to call that a x-wind landing....even if the runway is long though and there is snow on the runway.....i think its better to get the reversers out first...even in a xwind...if you hold the correction in....and feed it out as you slow...use small corrections on steering...it works out pretty well. i dunno...ive never gotten on the brakes first on a snowy/contaminated runway....

12-20-2007 | 08:38 AM

#28

btwissel

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From: Q400 survivor

Quote:

Originally Posted by fosters

no, actually it doesn't.

anti-skid is the same thing as anti-lock brakes in cars. it keeps the wheels from locking when you go ham-fisting the brakes. if the wheels spin, then you can control. once they lock up, you have no control over them. it does nothing to keep you from being pushed off the side of a runway due to winds and slick runway surfaces.

and next time you're preflighting, look at the tread in the tires. notice the difference in tread pattern between them and car tires. A/C tires are designed to go straight, and provide grip going straight. they are not very good when cornering or with side loads, unlike car tires, which are designed for that.

12-20-2007 | 08:46 AM

#29

nicholasblonde

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No one has been commenting on this part:

"The US Airways Express jet had touched down about 1,000 to 1,200 feet from the threshold of the 7,166-foot runway"

12-20-2007 | 08:48 AM

#30

sigep_nm

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Quote:

Originally Posted by nicholasblonde

No one has been commenting on this part:

"The US Airways Express jet had touched down about 1,000 to 1,200 feet from the threshold of the 7,166-foot runway"

Thats called the touchdown zone buddy, those big white blocks 1000 feet down the runway that you aim for, you're supposed to touchdown around there, hence the name. What were they supposed to do? Put it on the numbers?