Originally Posted by block30

Did I miss something.....? This 'paying dues' mentality never never ends.

Originally Posted by Flybywire89

Taken From A JC Member:

It is no secret to anyone on this board, or trying to break in to this industry that Pilots wages are way lower than they should be when you consider not only the amount of money we need to invest to get our ratings. But the sheer magnitude of the responsibility and risks of our craft.

The problem is not the economy. The problem is not the airlines being cheap.

Look in the Mirror. The problem is YOU. The problem is, and always has been new pilots who "just want to fly". Its pilots looking for the yellow brick road to the magical land of the Majors.

When I started flying I received two bits of wisdom from pilots in the industry that I feel are golden. They are the following:

1) "Never take an opportunity that will deny you the next opportunity"

2) "Know what you are worth"

I have found that the majority of pilots in the job market today either dont know what they are worth, or worse, they know, but they knowingly sell themselves short just so they can get their foot in the door.

THESE DAYS HAVE TO STOP! This mentality has lead not only to low wages being standard, but they have lead to the creation of an entirely new breeed of insult to our proffesion. The Pay- For Time programs.

To all of you Pay For Time people, even considering the idea... Think about when you were a teenager trying to get your first job. Be it at a supermarket, babysitter or whatever. Do you think that you would have had a job if Jimmy from your math class went to the same establishment and said, "Dont pay John Doe to work here, I will do it and I will PAY YOU to allow me to gain experience."

The Pay For Timers send the message that we are so addicted to flying, that we not only will do it for free, we will shell out cash to live out our "fantasy" of commercial aviation.

Life is not a game. Every single Pay For Timer pilot takes the place of a potential actual JOB for a pilot out of work.

You cant blame the airlines for trying this, Management looks for ways to make money and like they said in the movie:
"If you build it, they will come" They are offering PFT programs, and for some reason, the Pilots continue to come... WE NEED TO BREAK THE CYCLE!

But what about other airlines that dont have a PFT. The ones who pay their pilots... We need to be SMART when looking for a place to work.

$24,900 Annually.

Thats the Annual Pay of somone who works long hours, taking his/her cargo from point A to Point B several times per day/night. Navigating in the dark, in all weather, abiding by the rules and regulations set by the transportation administration. They get there on time, because being late hurts performance numbers and will cause a reduction in overall business.

Yes, $24,900 for that.

Just to be a Pizza Hut Delivery Driver. (tips were included in this calculation, but I took an average hourly and tip rate that I found online, google it and see for yourself)

Now, lets compare that to just some of the Airlines:

Pinnacle: $23,400 ($1,500 Less than Pizza)

Comair: $19,800 ($5,100 less than Pizza)

CommutAir: $22,600 ($2,300 less than Pizza)

Silver Airways: $18,240 ($6,660 less than Pizza)

And my personal favorite...

Great Lakes: $14,400 ($10,500 less than Pizza Huts Delivery Driver)

* I am not knocking Pizza delivery men/ women. I am saying that when you take in to account the amount of investment it takes to become a Pizza delivery person, and the fact that if you crash your car, all you lose is an on time pizza delivery, as opposed to the lives of 70 people, Pilots should be paid more than you per their responsibility.

So, lets review....

You paid tens of thousands (some of you over a hundred thousand) in fees for your flight training. You are in debt. You understand advanced aerodynamics and take responsibility of hundreds of lives every day and you think that you are worth close to $10,000 less than the guy who delivers the Pizza?

Think about this the next time an airline calls you to interview.

Its time to set a minimum standard for hire at the airlines.

WE THE PILOTS are the ones to blame for allowing it to get to this point. WE THE PILOTS are the ones who have to put our foot down and change it.

We need to stop looking at it as the airlines have the planes that we NEED to fly. That is not the case. The truth is that WE the are the pilots who the airlines NEED to fly their planes.

So whats it going to be? What are you worth as a Pilot?

Originally Posted by AZbound

Get off your soap box and get back into your 172. Dear Lord. I hope I never have to share a cockpit with your ego, I mean, you. If you could have made it through training at Lakes you wouldn't be feeding us excuses and telling us about this "Epipheny" that you coincidently had in the middle of training after interviewing and accepting the job.

Originally Posted by IrishFlyer757

AZbound - can you speak to the movement at GLA these days and how long a guy might be on reserve? Also, what base are they primarily hiring into and on what equipment? I know nothing is certain - but just curious as to what has been trending lately.

Originally Posted by AvPilot

How long are upgrades currently running now at Great Lakes anyways?

Originally Posted by 1900CA

There are several good options for crash pads at most of the outstation that range from $80 - $150 a month, as long as your not too good for an air mattress in a house/apartment where yo may have to share a room with someone else for 3-5 nights a month.

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

Quoted for ridiculousness.