I never made a comparison between the TSA contract and Skywest contract. If reading comprehension were made a priority in your schooling, you would realize what I was saying.

1) No I don't envy Skywest.
2) Yes, we should be paying attention to all other companies especially the big ones. You guessed it, Skywest is in this category.
3) I agreed that our contract is crappy and wages need to come up to at least industry standard but we have a union with leverage that is working on that problem.

I hope my post clear this time.

Read between the lines, you sure did compare Trans States and SkyWest.

Aww jeeze.....

The reason I use TSA/Mesa mainly (I also mentioned skyway, comair, asa, and eagle) is because a HUGE number of SkyWest pilots came from these carriers that in general haven't had a "win" with ALPA in some time. I would venture a guess that VERY few former Xjet, Horizon, and Republic pilots find themselves in SkyWest uniforms and therefore they aren't voting at SkyWest. I'm just trying to let everyone else on here see where SkyWest pilots mindset is, and I'm trying to come up with an alternative way of convincing the 15-16% you need that it's a good idea. Simply telling us that we have more leverage than everyone else, won't convince anyone. Hopefully the tides will start changing in favor of labor, and the next time a union drive happens at SkyWest we may very well see it succeed. Until then I'm afraid that too many SkyWest pilots, former ALPA members themselves, feel that ALPA hasn't spoken for them (the junior RJ pilot) and don't want them at SkyWest.

I think some people need to get past this idea that ALPA is some group of hired goons that, once voted on property, go to company HQ and start busting knee caps with tire irons and setting right all the wrongs that have been suffered.

If you are a pilot, YOU are ALPA. ALPA national is a resource for you to use, but YOUR MEC, made up of YOUR pilots is the part of ALPA that makes or breaks YOU as a pilot group. Weak pilot group = weak MEC. Strong, unified pilot group = strong MEC. One reason XJT, Eagle, and Horizon have such great contracts is that there are enough pilots that are there for the long haul that have a vested interest in making those airlines the best place they can be. At airlines like TSA and Mesa that have such high turnover, its hard to get enough people to stick around long enough to get on the same page. I mean christ, Horizon has arguably one of the worst unions for airline pilots (Teamsters) yet their contract is head and shoulders above everyone else. Its not because of who issues their union cards, its because the pilot group is united and willing to fight for what they think they deserve.

Its that mindset Im talking about as well. Mesa, TSA, etc all have separate issues and degrees of success that their respective union can or cannot use as leverage. Its a mindset that people have an entitlement mentality that a union will shelter them from the realities of the situation. Look at it this way, would places like Mesa and TSA be better without their respective unions? This is the mindset these people who are now at Skywest should think about. And then you add the fact that the situation they find themselves at Skywest is ripe for leverage because of their enormous and continuous success if only they had ability to force management into real good faith bargaining.

That is a big part of it but you also have to take into consideration the financial health of each property. Lets face it, if you have a management group that has a faulty business plan and the company is being driven into the ground, there isn't much ANY union can do. But if you have a company who has been successful for 35 years, has more than $700 million in the bank and probably going to make $150 million last year, there is a lot a union can do to get management to compansate the pilots just a little bit more.

[quote=Nevets;315772]Its that mindset Im talking about as well. Mesa, TSA, etc all have separate issues and degrees of success that their respective union can or cannot use as leverage. Its a mindset that people have an entitlement mentality that a union will shelter them from the realities of the situation. Look at it this way, would places like Mesa and TSA be better without their respective unions? This is the mindset these people who are now at Skywest should think about. And then you add the fact that the situation they find themselves at Skywest is ripe for leverage because of their enormous and continuous success if only they had ability to force management into real good faith bargaining.
quote]

I'm just trying to suggest an alternative approach, but apparently you either don't agree or don't understand what I'm getting at. The reason I say this is because, we've heard those very same arguements you've been presenting on this board, and those arguements didn't persuade enough SkyWest pilots. Continuing with the same lines will probably fail again next time around. I'm merely suggesting that the pro union pilots at SkyWest, and any pilot at a different carrier that wishes a union to exist here, may have to look at it from a different angle.

Nevets - Ya'll that are preaching the graces of ALPA to SkyWest Pilots really should think up a new approach...the way you've been going at it, let's just say that ya'll made a great career choice in straying from the practice of law. Seriously!

This is why I envy SkyWest. This is a SkyWest flight, isnt it?:D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_BQk_2Zd04&NR=1

Holy crap, Susabelle. It seems like about half your posts consist of you having to explain a previous post to somebody who "didn't get it." Have you ever considered that maybe it's your lack of writing skills, and not their lack of reading skills, that's causing a problem?

Maybe I dont understand what you are saying. But Im not going to make stuff up to try to persuade someone. I'm telling you how it is. My approach is an approach of telling you the truth. If I can't persuade you with the truth than nothing will.

I've never said I practice law. As a matter of fact, I just finished saying that I speak truth. That disqualifies me as a lawyer.:D

Look, if the truth is not going to change people's minds, then I rather their minds not be changed rather than telling you what you want to hear and then not being able to deliver the promises. I think that was a run on sentence but I think you get my point.

You don't have to convince me, but you DO have to convince another 15% of our pilots. My opinion on anything is, if something hasn't worked a half dozen times, you should probably change the approach.

I don't envy Skywest, but I do think they are a great company. Everyone wants to go there. Even my buddy, who could get on with most other regionals, is waiting until Skywest calls him. Why? From what I hear, it is because Skywest has good pay and work rules. And I firmly feel that is due to them being a non-union company. Companies reward their employees for hard work and loyalty, not ganging up to buck the system.

Do you pay attention to what goes on in this industry? Whats gone on at UAL, NWA, Pinnacle, Champion, MESA, and TSA for the last 6 years? Lots of hard work, and absolutely NO rewards.

Did you see their pay increase? With your logic evidently Skywest MGMT doesnt think much of their employees or their hard work and loyalty.:rolleyes:

I'm sorry. I shouldn't have stated my opinion to all you union guys. I will just state the facts:

1. Skywest is in the top 3 for pay among regionals.

2. Skywest has no shortage of qualified applicants, unlike other regionals.

3. Skywest has no union.

There you go, just the facts.

Just Facts,

XJT is in the top 3 regionals in pay, they have a union, and also have no shortage of applicants. So again your logic isnt very convincing. There you go, just the facts.

50 seat RJ pay:

Year 1: XJT = $23 SKW = $22 OK, I'll give them a dollar

Year 2: XJT = $34 SKW = $35 But take it right back

Year 3: XJT = $37 SKW = $37

Sounds like the same to me.

XJT: not hiring = no shortage of applicants.

Okay, so the only difference between SkyWest and XJet now is ALPA...what's your point? Different strokes for different folks, er...companies, my friend.

Not that it really matters but

XJT year 1 pay is 23.79

2.pay is 35.40

3.pay is 37.61

All that increases next year and pay rates are only a small part of a Contract. XJT work rules and incentives are where the big money is at. XJT is hiring now and putting people in class in march or april. Facts

All i am saying is you guys deserve to be getting paid more. You fly bigger planes and your company makes more money than any other regional. You deserve more and shouldnt compare XJT 50 seat rates to your 50-70 seat rates.

Absolutely - we at SkyWest know nothing of work-rules :rolleyes:...Why must all ya'll on APC be righteous in all things ALPA/SkyWest - telling us that what we have is not worthy of our talent etc...? I already have one set of parents - I don't need an extended-nuclear family on APC!

The problem is XE pilots fly 37 and 50 seaters. SkyWest pilots fly up to 70 seaters, and are getting paid the same. All while SkyWest makes a pretty penny off the backs of their pilots. Face it, you deserve better, and you won't get it without ALPA.

Sorry experimental. Was just trying to give yall some support.

I am not badmouthing you or your pilot group I am saying you deserve more for what you do and you are being taken advantage of. You may ask, why do i care? Well when you fly 70 seaters for what i used to make flying a 37 and 50 seat jet at XJT you give other mgmts reason to say that the XJT pilots are overpaid because you do it for less. You should be and deserve to be the highest paid pilots in the regional sector. IF you get 100 seat aircraft would you ask for more pay? how much more? 2-5-10% more where does it stop? I never said ANYTHING about TALENT do you have a complex?

All in healthy discussion buddy dont get bent out of shape.;)

Stating opinions as facts is not helpful to your cause, Tex.

Horizon has a $121 pay rate, a full 15% higher than Skywest's top rate of $105. Republic has a pay rate of $119, over 13% higher than Skywest's. And the most junior CA flying for ExpressJet's Charter operation pulls in a minimum guarantee of $104,760, a full $10,260, or over 9% higher minimum guarantee than the most senior pilot for Skywest.

It is a fact that Skywest has the 3rd highest hourly pay rate for a FAR 121 airline aircraft that seats less than 90 passengers in the US. Beyond that, it's hard to tell where the facts end and the opinion begins.

And the great 'satan', Mesa? Their supposedly horrible contract, the one signed 5 years ago that gave away the farm to capture all of their flying . . . it pays a mere $94,600 a year minimum guarantee to a 20 year CA, $100 more than the minimum guarantee for Skywest's highest pay level.:eek:

Those are facts.

Not to mention the XJT rates are ONLY for 37/50 seat jets not 70 seaters.

I was quoting the scale for 50 seaters.

True, but the Republic rate is for E-175's, which are larger than anything Skywest flies.

The real judge of an airline, in my opinion, is the work rules and QOL. It's hard to gauge what 'the best' is in this area. If you live in Salt Lake, Skywest will likely be a better choice than any airline but Delta, and even that is debatable (if NWA and DL merge, what happens, plus SLC is not a junior base for DL, so you'd have to commute to the job for a bit - the lack of commute being the the whole reason you'd choose DL, likely) - in short, if you're living comfortably, then why leave?

Considering what others are getting and the apparent shortage of pilots @ the regional new-hire level, I would think Skywest could have done better for their junior ranks, and the EMB guys. Would they have done better if they were ALPA or union at all? That is impossible to know, but we all can speculate.;)

Well, it a rarity that an individual will stay at a regional for 20 years, so the upper end of the pay scale is irrelevant. The focus is on year 1- 5, which is the average stay for an individual at a regional (well, unless you are at Eagle).

I agree. Why does Skywest (or any regional) have pay rates beyond year 12 then? Take all the excesses that go to the guys with over 12 years and concentrate in in the first 10 years, especially year 1 and the EMB guys. If the legacy airlines, where you certainly will spend more than 12 years, only have rates up to 12, then why does any airline that is, for the most part, not a career airline, have 20 year rates?

To make their company look attractive to potential new hires I guess.

Good night everyone.

That's not necessarily the norm. Talk to guys at SkyWest, Horizon, Piedmont, AWAC, ExpressJet, Mesa, ASA, pretty much everywhere. There are many people who will not leave. But you're right, 1-5 year pay should be better everywhere....even SkyWest.

We have a handful of guys that have been at PSA for 15+ years, but they are definately the minority. I couldn't imagine being there that long.

I hear ya. I feel the same way. However, everyone has their own situations and reasons for the decisions they make. Some people have sick kids, some enjoy what they're doing, and some just have skeletons in their closets. Others are just lazy. To each their own, right?

I reckon so.

I'm only correcting your above statement and by no way does it justify anything, especially our BS “BradHoltOverride.”

The E-175 (up to 88 seats) is in the same exact class as the CRJ-900 (up to 90 seats). Just like the E-170 is in the same class as the CRJ-700 and the CRJ-200 is the same class as the ERJ-145.

http://www.crj.bombardier.com/CRJ/en...d=en&crjId=900

http://www.embraercommercialjets.com...ts/emb_175.asp

The E-jet has a longer range (200 nm) but was designed for 2 less seats and due to basic designs burns a bit more fuel. No JSJ, just basic facts. They both serve there purposes and both should be mainline.

Off subject but since there are so many skywest guys here already- do you guys have an ATL base, its not listed on the website and always thought that they did-If they do, Is it a senior-Jr. or avg. seniority base?
Thanks for the info!

Yes we do but it's small and relatively senior, although it could get more JR seeing that most of our trips are stand-ups (CDO’s), locals and two days which only benefit those who live here. This means that commuters usually have to buy 4-5 hotel rooms each month so pilots are bailing for ORD or MKE where they can hold commutable 4 day trips.

As for our future, who knows? We've averaged 16 lines per month since last July (when we opened) but next month we were told we'll only have 11 lines (reduction of 5 lines). Not that ATL's flying is being reduced by that much, there will just be more SLC crews running around covering the flying. ATL’s always been a temporary fix for SLC’s complaining about having to many 5 day trips and now I guess their complaining about not having enough flying. ATL crews aren't even good enough to be a red headed stepchild.

IMO, as more 9E jets arrive I’m sure it will just continue to get worst until they close us sometime in early 09.

Thanks again for the info-would love to be with a company based in ATL, but just dont want to go anywhere. ASA looks like an option but not convinced about them yet.

How is SLC as a base- how hard would it be to commute there from MCO or FLL.

What is Skywest best base as far as trips, QOL etc.

Are most of your trips 2, 4, 5 days? or are all the pairings diff. for each of the bases. (like jj16 said about atl)

Hardly, Mr. Turkey Gobble. *wink*