This is the mentality I'm talking about. Its not that something hasn't worked a half dozen times. Its that there is different amount of leverage from company to company. Mesa for example, they used up most of their leverage in their scope clause in order to reign in their alter ego airline. Like I said, things would have been MUCH MUCH worse without a union at places like Mesa, TSA, etc but people dont understand that and expect that everything should be as if their airline was successful and run by a competent management group. Its just unrealistic to think that ANY union can make things happen in an instant.

Again, my approach is to tell it like it is. ALPA is not omnipotent or perfect. But a union does mitigate a lot of things that would otherwise be worse. If the truth isn't good enough for people than nothing will.

Yes but considering they have more than $700 MILLION in the bank and made about $150 MILLION last year, their "at-will" work rules and pay should be just a little bit more. Maybe just a bit more than the next more successful regional. I don't think that is too much to ask.

Anyways, I dont think their pilots were rewarded enough for their hard work and loyalty in defeating the ALPA vote.

Skywest should be the undisputed, without a doubt, THEE best paid regional considering their continued success. Without a union, that will probably never happen.

And why are they making just as much as XJT when they should be getting paid more considering Skywest's balance sheet? By the way, XJT's COLA is 3% compared to Skywest's 1%.

Point is that without a union Skywest pilots will never get more than just at or around ASA rates when they should be the FDX/UPS of the regional industry.

Because what you have affects us all especially when your company is thee most successful regional. We are not your parents but we are your neighbors and would just like you guys to get some landscaping to bring the value of our homes up.;)

Part of QOL is whether you are an "at-will" employee or not. But considering that with a union recognized by the National Mediation Board has, by that virtue alone, has more leverage, its hard to see how they can not do better than what they were given by management.

Amen, and I would take a bit farther and say that any jet over 30 seats should have been at mainline.;)

You just want to see us lose our Contracts...LoL - I'm on to you! There can be no such thing as a "regional UPS/FDX" as long as mainline uses each and every one of us to whipsaw against eachother. It 'aint gonna happen...

What I meant to say is that Skywest should have the best work rules and pay out of all the regionals. I'm not saying that you need to price yourselves out of the market but clearly Skywest is able to improve work rules and pay. Right now other regional managements use your work rules and pay to whipsaw the rest of the regional industry considering Skywest is thee most successful with the healthiest balance sheet.

It 'aint gonna happen...overnight.;)

Thats exactly what mgmt wants you to think. Dont fall for that. Your company pays you not the major you fly for. All the major cares about it waht your mgmt charges them. Instead of giving you more they would prefer to pocket it themselves and throw fear grenades that if they pay more you will lose flying. Whipsawing is not good for anyone.

the half dozen times I'm referring to are the previous failed union drives at SkyWest.

Ah, my bad. I thought there were only three total unionizing drives in the past. That is what confused me.

Again, at this last drive (its the only one I was involved in), I only told people the truth. I was not going to make promises that were just not realistic even if it meant that it would persuade people. Many people wanted to know if there would be results the day after the vote (assuming it was successful, for the pilots that is). Things don't happen overnight and I wasn't going to say everything would happen overnight.

Do you have any suggestions that doesn't involve not being truthful?

Air Wisconsin flying? The flying was United's and Air Wisconsin lost the contract. Simple as that. No regional has their own flying. 90 percent of the regionals wouldn't even be in business if it weren't for the majors they get in bed with. Why is Air Wisconsin flying the same number of airplanes for USAir that they were flying for United?

How exactly did SkyWest put Skyway out of business in less than one year of flying for Midwest? Skyway was not making bundles of money flying 16 airplanes or they would have expanded. Ask yourself why Midwest/Skyway (same thing really) didn't buy CRJ's or ERJ's and fly them. The airplanes have been around for 15 years. How is a company with 11000 employees and significantly higher operating costs and pay that is higher in many other departments (such as mx) somehow cheaper than a company with fewer than 500 employees?

Midwest/Skyway management put Skyway out of business with their inability/reluctance to expand them. Simple as that. Why were they never given more or larger airplanes? Midwest/Skyway management put Skyway out of business just as Kerry Skeen put ACA out of business and Geoff Crowley lost Air Wisconsin's United flying.

ExpressJet does!:D

Gotta agree with you though, SkyWest didn't put Skyway out of business, poor choice of aircraft, no plan for growth and a lack of economies of scale did.

ExpressJet does and I should have clarifed what I said. ExpressJet is already cutting branded flights because it just simply doesn't work for airlines to operate 50 seat airplanes with their own brand. It didn't work for Indy, it isn't working for GO! in Hawaii and it doesn't appear that ExpressJet's own brand is working. The gravy train the regionals enjoy is a result of the contracts they have with majors. Not criticism or flaming, just a fact.

You should also then be clarifying that while flying is getting cut in the east it is getting added in the west. Pretty much nothing in common with INDY. No Flaming, Just A FACT. The XJT brand is doing much better than INDY ever did. While some routes are being dropped they are tweaking the routes. Would you expect it to be an Instant success?

Another difference is that Indy charged some very low fares. XE does not.

I wasn't implying that it should be an instant success. But regionals are not making fists of money by doing their own flying. It is a result of the contracts they have with major carriers. That is why regionals were making money when majors were in bankruptcy and why ASA, Comair, and Mesaba got taken into BK right along with Delta and Northwest.

So what your saying is you feel that you are an expert on ExpressJet and its business? While the branded isnt the big money maker for XJT its in its infant stage, it will take time to come to fruition if it does. Who knows it may or may not work but unless you have a crystal ball, all you are offering is bs opinion that you present as fact. So dont kid yourself....:cool:

LoL I was really just poking fun at Nevets is all ;)

Just walked past an ExpressJet billboard in Tucson that was advertising non-stops to GEG and MCI...

I would love to be behind those closed doors when the powers-that-be decide what routes to fly...what a whacky route-structure!

"Very low fares" is relative...I call $99 El Paso to Ontario, CA a low fare...

They're facing the same issues as us at QX: We can't compete with SWA between the big markets up and down the western US. Point-point (non-hub) is the way to maintain your own markets.

Yeah, and $211 each way from ABQ-ONT. Not exactly low fare.:rolleyes:

Would you expect a low-fare when you're booking a flight for the very next day??? Because that is how you came up with $211. If you would, I might say that you need to do a little homework! Typically, lower-fares are offered to customers purchasing tickets at least two weeks in advance - this is how the vast majority of tickets are sold, and so it is safe to assume that those are "normal" fares.

By the way, your ABQ-ONT fare, when purchased 14 days in advance, comes out to a whopping $91.

I understand that - what I don't understand is how they pick those point-to-point, non-hub markets...Oooh to be a fly on the wall :D

Bottom line is XJT is doing better than FLYI ever did so they must be doing something right? I suggest you do a little more homework. Have you ever flown on ExpressJet? Where did you get your expertise on the ExpressJet business model?:cool:

And do you honestly think in this world of procrastinating people that everyone buys their tickets 14 days in advance? How about a death in the family? Or a new business proposal that just came out? Would you care to show me statistics that the majority of people buy their tickets at least two weeks in advance? You have NO idea that this is how the vast majority of tickets are sold, therefore it is NOT safe to assume that those are "normal" fares.

Did you ever think that just maybe they hired the same route analysts as Southwest?

Same thing SWA does, not very hard to see that the idea is. XJT goes to markets not served by anyone else thus Avoiding hubs, thats the idea.

1) I never said XJT wasn't doing well. My post was purely a rebuttal to another's, who said that their branded is not selling low-fares.

2) I have flown on ExpressJet. After all, I did work for them...

Now i know why you have your stance. :cool:

A death in the family is not a normal, everyday affair. I invite you to informally poll friends and family on their traveling habits. Let me know what you find, because I have a sneaky suspicion that you'll be buying me a beer. :D

You know as well as I do that with the American flying-public, the chance to shave $10 off a round-trip to FLL would easily overcome the allure of procrastination!

Yes, but new business proposals and last minute plans can be very normal. I never said that there were not lower fares, but not all fares are low. And the comparison to Indy is a worn out argument that doesn't hold water. The only similarity is 50 seat jets.

I don't have time to poll though, I have to search for the lowest fare to Vegas for my trip this summer!!:D:D

They analyzed dozens of market pairs that had no current airline serving those city pairs. They picked the ones they thought would have the best chance at success.

I think he meant that XJT doesn't sell the $19 fares that I believe FlyI was selling. There will always be "low" fares in the 21 day bucket to attract traffic to any airline.

No current service, medium sized cities, X number of people already traveling between the two cities through another connecting city.

XJT is not trying to be a LCC. That is not the model they are pursuing. There will be "low" (probably never anything as low as FlyI had) fares to begin with to attract a customer base. The plan is to get the average fare up about 20%.

And even that is not a fair comparison as they did get Airbuses as well.

Nevets - holy cow! Your last post made nearly perfect sense. :eek: It very well might just be the first thing we agree on...LoL

What do you mean, "nearly perfect sense?" All my post make PERFECT sense.;)

I like XJT's approach with their branded flying but it’s unfortunate that if and when XJT stumbles upon a really hot route that SWA will soon follow and we all know that XJT can’t compete with SWA. As long as the markets are to thin for SWA but busy enough to support an ERJ and if the fuel prices can stay well below 100/barrel, then XJT will do just fine. They won't make a killing and they won't be able to move their entire fleet over if CAL cuts them loose, but they should be able to turn a profit in the future.

It's obvious that XJT’s not run by a bunch of idiots, like FLYI was.

TUS-MCI is actually one of the more popular routes. Go figure:eek:

Skywest airbuses
 

Skywest has Airbuses When did this happen-or is this some kind of inside joke im not getting?:confused::confused::confused:

They dont have airbuses. They were discussing Independence Air which had airbuses.

So, I walked into a thread about SKW and found myself in the middle of XJT Branded bashing! Bring on the W-T-F bus!

Okay, I'll bite. Do you work for XJT, or are you just a saturday morning quarterback? :D

I don't think anyone's really bashing XJT's for doing branded flying. They're just debating that 50 seaters aren't going to make a killing with $85-$100/barrel oil, this is obvious; it's not a knock on XJT. Also that XJT is currently losing money but that's mainly due to high energy and initial start up costs. And finally that XJT’s branded flying is a wonderful attempt to fill a void but, in my opinion, isn't going to float the company if you all lose more CAL flying. It’s simple, if XJT stumbles across a highly profitable route that needs high frequency or a larger a/c then SWA will move in and XJT can't compete with the low cost king. This forces them to stay on thin routes and bank on people paying $20-$40+ more for direct flights over two legers. I think a lot of passengers will pay a premium for a direct flight that keeps them away from huge hub airports but I fear a lot is actually just enough in XJT’s case.

So in recap, no XJT bashing, just a bunch of over reacting. Much like your post above.