You seem to a have a little bit of problems with those computer things there TD. I believe something with a Merlin GPS seems to ring a bell?

 

If what you're referring to is the worst I ever do then I'll still be miles ahead of most!

 

i'd say techinally, he didn't wash out of training. never took a ride. did he wash out? yes? were they humane with the "resign or else" yes. that's SOP in the world

 

Best advice right there.

Never, ever, ever give up.

Some people have the talent to learn and retain new tricks and procedures on a whim. Others need to see things a different way before a concept is grasped. This all goes back to Fundamentals of Instructing for the CFI.

 

This is a good post for those who are starting or are thinking about jumping into the airlines. You have to have the right attitude and understand what your objectives are and how you're going to accomplish them and most importantly that you are READY for it. I can't tell you how many people I've seen in classes that should not have been there in the first place. I think it's because people think that that just because they were "hired" and considered employees the airline will not fail them. There is such a big learning curve from flying a 172 VFR vs a jet and quite frankly from my experience airlines aren't sympathetic and they'll give you the bare minimums you have to know. Before you go into training put in the effort to be ready study up on high performance flying and get as much info as you can so that you're at least not going to be clueless when class starts.

 

Believe it or not - I'm getting the feeling from this thread that the airline industry in a lot harder on it's hirees than the military has been on it's student pilots or newly winged aviators in the last few years. It is VERY hard to failed someone out of flight school now. The amount of money invested keeps rising and the numbers keep falling. Cost saving solutions meant to reduce the time and money it takes to train also means the past experience isn't there - in the way of total hours or discipline (think the elements of CRM).

I see this as being somewhat akin to the regionals lowering their minimum required and all the chatter here about very low time pilots being invited to training and then whether they are ready for that training or not before they start.

Of course some credit has to be given to an industry where the standardization is so high that there are many success stories of these same low times pilots completing training and moving on to the airlines and eventually becoming high time Captains. Kudos.

Someone else said that the most stable flying job you'll ever get is in the military. Strange thought - but from what I see on these threads that just might be the truth!

USMCFLYR

 

I dunno my Air Force students got it handed to them when they went in. They spent hours on end getting ready for it every day. Best thing for them is they didn't have to "unlearn" something. I spent time in the program with them and it's unlike any training I've seen anywhere else. However training only gets you started and experience takes you the rest of the way. That's where I think the civil world actually ends up taking the lead. 90+hrs a month instructing and flying 135/121 builds a lot of experience in a quick mannor. There are many AF guys/gals out there flying heavies with less time than these regional guys.

 

TD -

No, no, no.......Not saying they don't work hard - oh they do! But for instance when I was first briefed on the AF grading system making it's way into the Primary VT at NAS Whiting (and forgive me because I don't remember all the details at all since it didn't concern me at the time), I remember something about a student was able to get a *down* or a *SOD* or whatever you want to call it nowadays and he doesn't even get remedial training on what he performed in an unsatisfactory manner before he moves on to the next flight. And as long as he doesn't do this a few times IN A ROW then he continues on.

Sorry to sound like one of those OLD GUYS saying that it was harder back when - but you got three strikes and then you were out (and that was THROUGHOUT FLIGHT SCHOOL). I sit on a lot of boards of all kinds in my position currently and I see that 99% of them are trainable and they get the extra training and they make good fleet pilots. But sometimes - one that you know isn't going to make it just won't go away because the head freds don't believe the guys that are flying with them day in and day out. they tell us to make the hard call and then when we do they tell us we aren't training them right.

Agreed on the TT on the regionals and the 121 and many other types of flying, BUT - remember also that flying from point A to point B has it's limitation too. Many of those military heavy flying guys are flying into places that take an extra portion of CRM to get into with other **things** to think about too. Heck - I'd have some more time too if so many of my flights weren't 0.9 (lots of sorties - few hours)

All flying is good flying....just some is better than others!
(that was told to me by a senior in high school when I was but a freshman - but the word flying was replaced)

USMCFLYR

 

HHAHA that's a good quote.

 

When I went thru UPT in 1986......damn was it that long ago..... it was three in a row.....pack your bags..... we started 66 graduated 27 from my original class. I have a friend of mine who is a retired LTC fighter pilot type who is also a sim instructor at CAFB UPT. He says that there are few and far between washouts these days and that they will do just about anything to get someone thru. Good ...bad .... i dont know... but I can say that it was different..."back in the day"....