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Originally Posted by Bond
(Post 355003)
About 2.5 years ago three of us friends set out on this aviation venture. All of us had about the same amount of time, and all of us had the same options give or take a regional or two.
One of us went to Mesa chasing the quick ungrade, one of us went to a prop outfit also chasing the quick PIC, and one of us chose QOL above all. One of us is still at Mesa able to hold upgrade, but not enough time, with horrible QOL and the potential of losing flying (see Delta)...the guy is seriously considering getting out of the industry altogether as he has nowhere to go during this downturn...not even another regional. One of us is now prop captain with about 400 PIC, but nowhere to go, on account of very few major players hiring, and now with ATA guys (among others) on the street whom are much more qualified...well you guys get the picture (he also hates his life at this company). Finally, one of us is still an f/o less than fifty numbers (idle nonetheless) from upgrade, probably not going to see the left until next year, which will make it almost 4 years, but really happy to go to work every day. This is a real story, and the moral is pick a place where you could be happy at for up to 5 or 6 years...none of us thought we would be at a "regional" carrier past the three year mark (little did we know about this industry), only one of us is still happy. Take it for what is worth, just the experience of three guys, I'm sure there's many more.... |
Good observation, usuav8r, but nope. No regional aircraft is an "airliner" as viewed by the flying public. It's simply a "commuter plane" or "puddle jumper" with less experienced pilots. We all know that's not always the case, but we'll always deal with that public perception at this level.
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Originally Posted by coop77
(Post 355285)
Good observation, usuav8r, but nope. No regional aircraft is an "airliner" as viewed by the flying public. It's simply a "commuter plane" or "puddle jumper" with less experienced pilots. We all know that's not always the case, but we'll always deal with that public perception at this level.
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Chasing the quick PIC is a very risky move, but it might be appropriate for some folks...self-sufficient, single, not rooted down.
But even if you get the PIC, then what? Is the industry in a hiring cycle? Are you able to compete effectively for a major job? This depends as much on who you know and your non-flying background as your flight experience. There are tens of thousands of RJ drivers out there...what makes you different? Did you do something interesting other than attend an aviation university and get your ratings? Volunteer, peace corps, military, college/ametuer athlete, write a novel, etc. Anything to make you more interesting at an interview (and on a long trip). I opted for the safer route, mainly for my family's sake. Even with significant cutbacks I'll probably remain a line-holder in my chosen domicile. I'm not the kind of guy who usually goes for "safer" if there are potential rewards for risk, but this time it looks like a good move. |
I'm sure those ATA guys won't be able to afford going from whatever their salary was last week to a first year FO salary at a regional?? Sounds like a pretty severe pay cut to me.
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Originally Posted by Bond
(Post 355003)
This is a real story, and the moral is pick a place where you could be happy at for up to 5 or 6 years...none of us thought we would be at a "regional" carrier past the three year mark (little did we know about this industry), only one of us is still happy.
Originally Posted by rickair7777
(Post 355295)
Chasing the quick PIC is a very risky move, but it might be appropriate for some folks...self-sufficient, single, not rooted down.
I work for a bottom feeder, was able to upgrade as soon as I had the flight time to do so, and am very happy with my choice. Yes, it has its days where I'm not the happiest at work, but that is part of the game. Rick mentions risk...and I think the risk is the same at every regional/commuter. The risk in going to a bottom feeder is that you will end up being there longer than you planned on and go insane with the treatment and pay. However, you'll probably be building more experience faster than anyone else out there. The risk in going to a "top tier" regional (I don't believe there is such a thing, but some do), is that there will be a slowdown/loss of flying, and you'll be 8 years down the road in the right seat asking "What just happened?" Meanwhile, your buddies that went for quick PIC are hired, and likely in their 2nd or 3rd year at a major or LCC (provided connections and the market are conducive to that happening). Chances are QOL at your regional will still be quite good in that situation, though. It's all in where you lay your chips...good luck to all. |
Originally Posted by kansas
(Post 355326)
I strongly disagree. You are saying that the decision you made with your regional is the right one for everyone out there.
I strongly agree. One needs to do what is right for them, not just what everyone tells them to do on the APC forums. I work for a bottom feeder, was able to upgrade as soon as I had the flight time to do so, and am very happy with my choice. Yes, it has its days where I'm not the happiest at work, but that is part of the game. Rick mentions risk...and I think the risk is the same at every regional/commuter. The risk in going to a bottom feeder is that you will end up being there longer than you planned on and go insane with the treatment and pay. However, you'll probably be building more experience faster than anyone else out there. The risk in going to a "top tier" regional (I don't believe there is such a thing, but some do), is that there will be a slowdown/loss of flying, and you'll be 8 years down the road in the right seat asking "What just happened?" Meanwhile, your buddies that went for quick PIC are hired, and likely in their 2nd or 3rd year at a major or LCC (provided connections and the market are conducive to that happening). Chances are QOL at your regional will still be quite good in that situation, though. It's all in where you lay your chips...good luck to all. Absolutely, there's something to be said for "gambling big, and winning big", but it just simply wasn't for me, and as it turned out, the conservative approach worked out better in this case. I gambled that I was going to have a great QOL of life and pay, and as bonus a two year upgrade, well I got two out of three, and I'm still happy to come to work every day. Nonetheless, I did put a disclosure at the bottom of the post that there are many different stories out there...yours is different and I respect your perspective. Maybe you're fortunate enough to have somewhere to go soon, my friend who is building that "valuable" PIC, has nowhere to go, and even if he had 1500 PIC, the market is simpy oversaturated at the moment based on the current forces driving it. Could things change? Absolutely, but as the cycle comes and goes, the point is that some of us are happy to be at a place where we could easily spend 4,5, maybe even 6 years, without giving up what some of us consider to be the best things in life......in my case family. |
Originally Posted by PittsburghDude
(Post 355317)
I'm sure those ATA guys won't be able to afford going from whatever their salary was last week to a first year FO salary at a regional?? Sounds like a pretty severe pay cut to me.
I'll bet a bunch of the ATA guys apply for the street captain postions at Mesa. This industry sure does like to hand out swift kicks to the ... |
Originally Posted by PittsburghDude
(Post 355317)
I'm sure those ATA guys won't be able to afford going from whatever their salary was last week to a first year FO salary at a regional?? Sounds like a pretty severe pay cut to me.
I was thinking more along the lines, of them taking the few jobs left in the major/LCC arena. After all most of those guys are better qualified than most of us regional folks. |
Originally Posted by coop77
(Post 355124)
Good post, Bond. Very true. For those about to hit that BIG 250-hr mark with dreams of getting on with a major in the next 3-4 years, think again. Seriously. Times have changed, the age 65 rule is in effect, and you won't be flying a real airliner for at least 4-5 yrs (an RJ is not a real airliner BTW). .
Dude you are the reason why regionals aren't taken seriously. And why the pay reflects that. 50 years ago people were flying in DC3's. That was an airliner. Then the vickers vicount. Still an airliner. DC5,6...Still airliners. F28, F100. All airliners. CRJ ERJ all AIRLINERS |
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