Never Mind...

I got mine two years ago with 600TT...

but, turbofan started it :p

Want hours and high pay.. call these guys.. just posted on 350 yesterday..

DEAN INTERNATIONAL (Flight Instructors - (Earn $52,000 to $55,000 a year))
Tel: (305) 282-3058
Web Site: http://www.flymiami.com

First Post

A quick intro: I'm Kendall. Got my license in Watsonville, CA. Have about 250 hours. Instrument Rated. Was about to take Cmcl tests, then on to the CFI route when 9-11 hit. Uncle at TWA said find another career to feed my family as so many of his friends went on furlough. Now I'm in real estate. Currently residing in Grants Pass, OR and out of currency... in more ways than one. I enjoy my job, but I'm a bird with clipped wings.

So when I began reading this thread, it was about 5 pages. I wanted to post a response, but it took awhile to get the approval from the mods. I am short on time and haven't gotten past page 6 so if someone has posted something similar... well now here's another one.

I'll try to be brief...

This thread reminded me of my uncle. I have many family members in aviation and this uncle of mine is now retired from TWA. He and a buddy went into aviation around the same time. The buddy went the Vietnam, military route; my uncle civilian.

Here's the quick version of the story and reminds us what aviation was like during the booming years...

My grandfather bought my uncle a Champ. My uncle trained in it and flew it around the Northeast until he got his 250 hours; apparently the minimum at the time. He was then hired on at TWA where they continued his training. A very few hours later he performed his first retractable gear landing in a 707. Shortly after that he was granted Flight Engineer status. He went on to have a very successful career. As some of you probably understand, he says he never worked a day in his life.

His buddy trained in the military and did his first, solo retractable-gear landing in a Phantom at 50 hours. Shortly after that, he went on his first bombing mission. Again, this man went on to have a very successful, military career.

Throughout my uncle's career, he would rent a Cessna on rare occasions and fly it just fine.

I have no allusions about my level of expertise. I just thought these stories tell a little bit about the reality of what it can take or not to get in the right-seat.

Cheers

NOBODY flew a phantom ( F-4 ) with only 50 hours of flight training... not ever. T-37's ( or T-28's )...then T-38's..... then Fighter lead-in ...THEN F-4's..... at which point he would have had a couple hundred hours probably 300 of JET time..... much of hit fastmover time. .....

note: he very well may have soloed a T-37 at 8-10 hours .... thats about right, but a Phantom with 50 hours total time....nope.

Well I'll take your word for it. I'm no expert and I could be mistaken. That's the way I recall the story from my uncle's buddy. I met him at my cousin's wedding and we B.S.ed about aviation the whole time, but I haven't spoken to him since/in years. If I get in touch with him again, I'll ask him to retell the tale.

However 300 is not a lot of hours to command a fighter/bomber either... at least for the purposes of this conversation when we're talking 1000 hour minimums and such.

Military flight training... is a much more controlled environment....not better ....( though some might disagree with that ) not worse... just different. USAF pilots routinely upgrade from the right seat to Aircraft Commander with 800 hours in type.... usually about 2 years. Infact I would say you were expected to upgrade at that point..... at least they were when I did so.

[comment was deleted after further research that comment posted wasnt accurate]

Kendall - Regardless of what the guys say that was a good story. I hope your family is doing well these days.

I'm curious, how do you feel about pursuing real-estate as opposed to becoming a pilot? The funny thing is, I've talked to a lot of pilots who wished they had become real-estate agents. :D

Good luck.

Nwa
 

I had a guy in the jump seat one day who told me that he had hired on with NWA at 21 with 250 hours. Had flown his last trip that very day as a 747 captain and was commuting home to begin his retirement. Throughout his entire career he had not flown a small plane since the day he was hired at NWA.

SkyHigh

Why did I get into this industry again?

Not really true. Dummys are more likely to make bad decisions, but even a smart person with good common sense needs a frame of reference for his decision making. Judgement does not occur objectively in a vacuum...you need that frame of reference, which in this industry is measured in quality and quantity of flight experience.

Just to add my two cents worth, the CFI route is the best preparation for future airline CA's because the CFI gets:

- Stick and rudder skills.
- REAL PIC, not "supervised solo" on "school approved routes".
- CRM/personality management skills.
- The ability to judge when instant corrective action is required.
- Multi-tasking.
- Innate understanding (through repetition) of the underlying techniques which are required for the various tasks which comprise piloting.
- Less performance and redundancy in GA airplanes...this means that you learn to think your way out of problems, often through anticipation. 300 airline pilots don't get this, they think the power levers will solve any problem.
- While flying with students, you learn to expect the unexpected!

Our military forces do many things extremely well, and the foundation of this is always repetition, repetition, and more repetition. The same applies to flying...when things get busy, it's nice to able to fall back on the basics without having to think about it. Is CFI work repetetive? Sure...but that's a good thing! Like others have said, an airplane is an airplane. I happen to land a 172 just like an airliner...crab all the way down, then kick it out in the flare.

Some qualifiers...

While few CFI's just do circles around the flagpole, the best CFI experience will come from teaching multiple ratings, including CFII and MEI work. Busy airspace is also very enlightening.

Long-range x-country flying is not the norm, but most CFI's get some of that experience doing repos, babysitter flights, or ME time-building. If you're going to rent a twin, you may as well GO somewhere...

Your own stick and rudders skills are greatly enhanced by teaching others to do it. But for some reason this doesn't work so well with instrument skills...CFI's get rusty, and will need to refresh themselves in the sim.

Other forms of experience building can provide a somewhat different experience base, but CFIing has the broadest set of useful learning for the entry-level pro pilot. Not bashing non-CFI's, just providing some info for those who haven't chosen their path yet. Oh yeah, remember: Non-cfi's cannot really speak acurately of the CFI experience because they have never done it. But all CFI's can speak of being low-time pilots...we all had to be there once ;)

i've always thought that CFI was a good route, because what do you think you are, when you're the captain sitting next to that 300 hr FO....

To fly the airplanes you can't afford to buy....? At least for me.

[quote=rickair7777;360033]Not really true. Dummys are more likely to make bad decisions, but even a smart person with good common sense needs a frame of reference for his decision making. Judgement does not occur objectively in a vacuum...you need that frame of reference, which in this industry is measured in quality and quantity of flight experience.

Just to add my two cents worth, the CFI route is the best preparation for future airline CA's because the CFI gets:[quote=rickair7777;360033]


As a pilot we are supposed to use Good Judgment,,Good Judgment comes from Experience,,,Experience comes from Bad Judgment.
There is no substitute from being out there in the system flying as a cfii seeing situations you would never have thought could happen and dealing with them successfully.

Or 135'ing in AK over a winter in a C207 flying 8-10 hr's a day in stuff most pilots experience for mere seconds during takeoff or landing. Landing on icy windy 1200ft gravel strips, beaches and frozen rivers.

Will that make you a better pilot/fo or captain, why sure,, you have experiences to draw from where you made dumb mistakes or decisions back when you had 500-800 hr;s and thought you really could walk on water.

Only through that experience of just doing it comes good judgment,,for those who don't learn from their mistakes they are conveniently discarded from the gene pool. Problem is they don't know they have bad judgment until a situation comes up that they need experience to draw from.

Thanks TF.

Put it to you this way, if I knew I could support my family and be around more than a few days a week, I would fly. I was never happier than when I was flying, on the way to the airport or driving home after a nice flight. I'm sure I'm the only one here who's ever felt this way. :) I just felt like I was finally home.

My folks are in real estate and are pretty wealthy and I have some natural skills... (ahem)... B.S... (ahem)... along with a lifetime of real estate knowledge growing up with them so it seemed a natural fit. Ironically I never wanted to do it when I was younger, but again, to feed the family it seemed a natural fit. And I can tell you that it's a heck of a lot better than tending bar at beach resorts... well... at least for a loyal family man. ;)

One of the carrots to lure me away from flight school and into real estate was the promise of enough cash to live comfortably and fly for fun rather than work. That wasn't quite my dream, but it seemed a reasonable alternative. But my folks divorced and the real estate market tanked so I started looking at flying again, especially since a client told me that Heli pilots were in short supply. Well my research showed that to be a bit of a farce so it's back to real estate.

I must admit that I do enjoy it much more than I thought I would, and I'm pretty good at it. We all just need to weather this storm and life will be good. Again I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir here when I talk about cyclical businesses.

Another thing that sealed it was my old flight instructor. He flew both seats of the Brazilias for SkyWest out of Monterey for a few years and gave it up for Insurance sales. He's much happier. It seemed that once the demand curve shifted in favor of the airlines, they began to take advantage of pilots. No more fly to a destination, spend the night, fly back and spend 2-4 days with the family. No. He would often be gone for as much as 5 days solid. I always knew that a pilot would have to leave his family for a few days at a time per week, but not 5!!! I don't think I could do that and I want my kids to have their daddy around. Yes, I work 60-70 hours a week, but at least I'm home every night to put the little ones to bed and most nights even for dinner, though sometimes a late dinner.

Does that answer your questions?

By the way, if you know anyone that wants to buy or sell property in Southern Oregon, I know a good Realtor! :)

Kendall

I wonder
 

:DI wonder if i could get away with what that 320 did in a 47? be a heck of ride.
Naw I think not !

Well said! :) especially the last paragraph. I hope turbofan reads it.

Totally agree. When you're a CFI you really start getting all the things you missed in training, you understand the little mistakes, and you see how everything affects the flight. It's a great way to build time and gain experience, even if at first when you get your commercial the only thing you want is jumping quickly on a jet.

I'll be honest, I've never been so rusty in my life!

Maybe CFIing, or freight doggin, or lifting jumpers, or bush piloting, or any other little plane flying doesn't make one a better RJ FO. But we who did those things have much better stories (though not nearly as good as the military folks -- hats off to y'all).