Good attitude. Every low time guy on these boards wading through the crap should be commended for asking questions and learning something about the industry. It is worthwhile. It will make you a more savy applicant when your time comes.

It's a shame that part of pilot training isn't industry indoc. Of course management wouldn't want that, because they want all the eager, pie-eyed, clueless, $19/hour FO's they can get. Hey, and if you already hate unions, all the better.

 

Pre-bankruptcy Delta ALPA had scope which precluded any regional which served Delta from operating any aircraft over about 70 seats (not sure the exact number).

Since Mesa operates 900's, Mesa could not provide regional service to Delta, even though the 900's were flying for AWA/USA, not Delta. I'm not sure why they (Delta ALPA) cared about 900s that were not operating in their system, but that was the language.

Freedom is technically not Mesa (though owned by MAG), so using the Freedom certificate complied with the scope (which was silly to begin with). I'm not sure how bankruptcy has affected that.

 

BINGO, Rick. That is precisely the explanation I got when I arrived in Phoenix- I just couldn't remember with all the other stuff being crammed into my brain. You sure have your ear to the ground!

 

So is it wrong to say that freedom sounds a lot like go jets? And if thats teh case how come they dont get as much "publicity" as go jets?

 

Does anyone know if the families of the two pilots from Pinnacle who crashed are going to get any money? I heard they were going to sue the airline. Though after listening to the voice recorder and other stuff, I can't imagine why they would get any. And just to clarify, they weren't MPD pilots.
Though after hearing about that I'm not exactly psyced to have Pinnacle fly me home to Wausau from Minneapolis.
Any mesaba pilots out there? You guys probably know where Wausau is its sucks doesn;t it. And if you get stuck overnight that sucks even more. You get to smell the paper mill all night!

 

Freedom was basically the same as GoJet when it started. The Freedom flying was "recaptured" by Mesa (ALPA) pilots after the current, substandard, contract was ratified. So the Freedom pilots now are not the same one's that f*cked their brothers over at its' inception.

 

Slice is right on! With all the lowtimers drooling over these airplanes and the attitudes that 300+ hours makes them deserve to fly a jet though we can surely have another incident. With Delta in trouble there couldn't be a better time. They can actually screw all the brothers at Mesa and Delta at the same time! I think we could call this one a threesome.

XtremeF150

 

The families did sue. The pilots in question were acting like total @sses on the tape...HOWEVER, the airplane WAS certified to F410, even though every experienced operator knew damn well that the airplane was really marginal above the mid-30's. Additionally, GE and/or bombardier knew about the Core-lock phenomenon which supposedly rendered the engines inoperable after the flame-out, but this information was not available to rank-and-file pilots at any airline that I know of, and I'm not sure if the airlines even knew about it. I suspect that they have a case since transport categort airplanes are supposed to be able to maintain their service ceiling without stalling or flaming out, and transport category engines are supposed to be re-startable after a flame out.

The FO was a brand-new pay-for-training guy out of Gulfstream. The CA was ERAU.

 

I must say I can understand the animosity some have towards MPD pilots. I am getting ready to go into the Farmington CRJ sim here in a few months. IMHO the group of guys in my class are some of the hardest working and most intelligent people I've seen. We have all worked really hard to get where we are and are willing to work just as hard to reach a level that some would view as "enough time to be worthy". These guys are worthy of some respect because it definitely wasn't handed to them.

 

If you're wondering about the animosity towards some MAPD types...the following post (copied from another forum) shows why some folks have suspicions about the maturity, judgement, and implulse control of the MAPD product. During the course of his highly literate and constructive rant, This MAPD grad blames the pinnacle crash on CFI's (his info is wrong too, the pinnacle FO was a low time PFT type):

" those 2 dumb asses that stalled the crj for pinnacle, before planting it like a daisy in jefferson city mo. were not PFT or mapd type , they were both the brilliant cfi types, the same type of guys on here that think their SH*t doesn't stink....the same goofy bastards that sit around being complacent all the time at the flight schools, not in the mood to fly with their students because they are sick of the student needing 4 or 5 trys to get a holding pattern down...calling their students a bunch of dumb asses for that reason alone.......if they had a better atitude before coming to work, showed a little more enthusiasm and energy, not to mention, communicate to the student better or try a different way of getting the point across, then it wouldn't take 4 or 5 trys to enter a hold right nor would it have cost the student and extra $500....but mr. bad ass cfi doesn't care, he's getting his $12 an hr. pay for the extra flights and of course building 3-5 extra hours of time, plus he gets to go make fun of the dumb ass students with his jackoff cfi buddies.....actually, i am changing my mind now....i think i will go get my cfi now, this sounds pretty fun....i'll go ride around looking out the window, telling my student he needs a few more lessons on slow flight, padding the flight time a bit and of course earning me a few more of those HARD earned bucks.....BUT, most importantly, i will have earned the respect of these COK S*ckers on these pilot forums...........p.s. S*ck my 300 hr C*ck "



Obviously there are many older career changers who do MAPD on their own dime (not daddy's), and I'm sure they are just fine. Bottom line though 1000/100 is the accepted standard in the industry. If you are fortunate enough to get in without paying your dues, fine, but you need to be humble about until you get enough time to know what's really going on. I was damn humble my first year on line and I had an ATP!