Eagle in Miami
 

Anyone from Eagle want to tell me what the deal is with you guys and treating TSA pilots like dirt in Miami? We aren't the ones making the decision about your MIA flying nor trying to sell off the company. You also can't sit there and tell me that if you were in the same situation you wouldn't be flying the route. Grow up, get your union to get on management's ass, and stop being pricks about it.

What is the story on that? How many a/c are going to MIA for TSA? Are any Eagle EMBs going there or will they just maintain the ATR operation out there?

isnt eagle fighting to have that flying taken away from TSA and CHQ? i thought it was a legal thing. Anyone know the facts?

i havent been to MIA yet, what kinda stuff is going on?

Most Eagle crews are super nice, and I've NEVER had problems with many of them.

Some of them though are so ignorant it's ridiculous. They try to think we're some sort of evil airline stabbing them in the back. We flew most of the routes we have when they bought TWA, so we kept our flying. All Eagle is right now is a cancer on AA and American can't afford them anymore, and nobody wants to buy them either.

Yeah, apparently they are trying to get the routes back and the 10 aircraft from CHQ back. I wish them luck with that:rolleyes: Oh, the reason some of my fellow eagle pilots are upset is because they are losing the 24hr overnights at the Sherry on the beach. Never, had any overnight like that in the NE since I've been around, so it must those crazy ORD crews causing the problems done there:D Hahe, don't sweat it.

Eagle is parking an entire fleet (SF340's) Parking 40 RJ's furloughing and displacing hundreds of pilots while TSA is doing Eagle flying on Eagle planes.

Eagle Planes or AMR planes?

AMR's planes that Eagle pilots feel should be flown by AMR (Eagle) pilots. Similar to the fact that Trans States Holdings owns some CRJs that GoJet is flying and TSA pilots feel should be flown by TSA. I DISLIKE GOJET TOO but just look at it from Eagle perspective.

Just keep in mind, it's not the pilots' fault that TSA got assigned those routes... Take it out on the mgmt, not the guys flying the jets... The guys that are actually down there just had that trip come up on their bid packets... It's not their fault... (Regardless of what problem you may or may not have with who got the route).

Precisely.

I mean, every added airplane and route is good for us, it adds to job security, etc. But, with airline politics as complex as they are now, no single decision will not result in some group being upset about it. The airlines are bleeding money, so they give the flying to someone else who can do it cheaper. That sounds like a good decision to me. But, it screws over the Eagle guys, sort of helps out the TSA guys. But even so, the managements are running this show, not the crews.

See that's where the confusion comes into play. You realize that routes that AA and Eagle fly are old TWA and TWE routes, right? Those were TSA's routes, and AA is giving some to us. True, we do it cheaper, but so does CHQ.

GoJet on the otherhand was created to undercut a pilot group in pay and QOL. We didn't do that to Eagle pilots though

But that flying is being done in EAGLE airplanes. We have no problem that you are flying old TWE routes, just that you are doing it in our airplanes rather than your own. I know its not the pilot groups fault but it still pretty crappy what is being done and with the threat of furloughs here at Eagle a lot of guys are not happy that our planes are being leased to a competitor.

Additionally, in accordance with scope and contract clauses, Connection is not suppose to operate out of MIA, only STL. The company is knowingly violating this and ALPA allowed it because the company (about 2 months ago) claimed that we needed those planes doing the MIA flying so we could expand ORD and DFW flying. This is kind of like us, taking our planes and flying them as CO Express or Delta Conn. We arent allowed to do this, and at the same time the company is not allowed to give out MIA flying to TSA/CHQ guys. Of course we are ****ed. And granted, it is not the TSA crew's faults, however, dont blame us for disliking your company on the whole. Its the way things work.

This is so stupid. The airplane is a piece of metal. If you leased your old car to someone and they drive it to go bang your ex girlfriend that dumped you, does that mean that if he drove another vehicle to your -ex's house that its OK?

So what if we got the Eagle planes and flew them on our TDub routes, and then used our Swissair birds to do the MIA flying? Would that be OK?

Plus, we are paying you to operate these airplanes. It isn't like we jacked them from you.

But, I do get the point. It would suck, no question.

I think that's a poor shot at creating an analogy but whatever.

It's not like I went to TSA and said "Hey come lease these Eagle airplanes."

The point behind it is that its BS that guys here, myself included, are looking at being on the street come fall while airplanes that are owned by Eagle are leased to a competitor. It's a violation of our scope clause. Now I will give you the fact that the company won that grievance because Eagle was in a time of "significant growth" and couldn't staff the airplanes at the time. Well if guys here are furloughed that becomes erroneous. That is the issue at hand.

Maybe so.

Can you find the exact scope clause wording? I'd like to see it if possible.

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You aren't the only people worrying about furloughs. Talk to our 22 downgrades and the guys who could be getting furloughed soon. Still doesn't make it right that you guys are acting like five year olds who can't have candy in the checkout line at the grocery store.

Last I remember, a few months ago Eagle couldn't staff their airplanes, and they had 100+ FO vacancies for ORD or something crazy like that anyway.

And we're looking at furloughs at TSA as a possibility as well

we're all pilots bro

we complain how heavy the bags of money you give us are as well

Once again, the problem is that AMR is violating our scope by allowing TSA to fly out of MIA. Therefore, the flying is legally ours. Its is just unfortunate that we have management that willingly and knowingly violates contract clauses and a union that is too weak to do anything about it.

"Fly it now, grieve it later" + "No Strike Clause" = Kinda like competing in a UFC fight while wearing handcuffs, leg cuffs and a ball and chain.

Is it the individual TSA pilots' fault? No. However, do we dislike TSA as a whole? That would be an understatement.

Pretty much my opinion too. I dont condone the actions of our fellow eagle pilots in MIA but I can't condem them either. The fact that your ALPA has chosen to activly participate in activities that directly violate a fellow ALPA's CBA is more than dissapointing, its conterproductive to our entire profession. Most of us realize that its not the individual pilot, its managment, etc, etc but we are the ones who are having our contract walked over by your company, so don't expect a warm and fuzzy reception when you get to Miami.

you guys are being ridiculous. but i would expect nothing less. not because your eagle pilots, but because most pilots (especially here on apc) are just that petty. i wont stand for any shenanigans from anyone, and if someone approaches me about anything i'll tell him exactly where to stick it. we didn't take your flying. we bid a schedule, and we fly the trips on it. if it were more stl flying, or no more flying at all, we would just go fly it, and really not give a damn. blame amr, because like any good business, tsa management (not to say i like tsa mngnt AT ALL) is not going to turn down profitable flying because its going to upset the pilots. and the union isn't going to throw their arms up and say "vote to strike" because we got MIA flying. you're fooling yourself if you think otherwise. so dont give us s... when you see us, because we are not your problem. your management is.

So if you worked for TSA as a pilot, what would you do then if this was occuring?

It's easier to give people you see day in day out at the airport and treat them like garbage then manning up and calling your management out and doing something about it

Its even easier to be the bottom feeder in the industry and do someone elses job for cheaper, rather than manning up and calling your management out and doing something about it.

oh here we go... we've heard this argument over and over again. give it a rest. there is always going to be a management group that does something for cheaper. i could reply we are trying to get a better contact, blah blah blah. instead of posting this and going through this all over again, go search another posts and see how the argument ends up. if your going to say that, you can argue every pilot group at a regional can do the same job cheaper than eagle. so are they all bottom feeders? anyway, like i said, this is soon to turn into a pointless argument. we were given the flying. i can tell you from my own personal point of view, if an eagle pilot addressed me in a disrespectful manner we'd have a real problem. i'm just trying to do my job, and i don't really care what airport its at.

You should care. Scope is huge. TSA pilots should know that best. If management knows they can get away with it and that the pilots won't care then this industry is going to go TU more than it already has. Put yourself in the shoes of the guys at Eagle.

You guys at TSA may be facing furloughs as well but not as a result of your aircraft being operated by a competitor. You probably wouldn't like it too much if Hulas leased out some EMBs to say Colgan for Airways flying. (Not intended as a bash on any Colgan guys, just purely an example.)

valid point. and i do care about scope. but it does not condone the disrespecting of us in MIA. there is NOTHING we can do about it. our management has a right to seek profitable flying. just as if you had your own business, you would be in your right to seek better business opportunities. it is your management that took the flying from you and gave it to tsa. what are we supposed to do about that? go on strike? no, id strike over better pay, work rules, qol, etc if it gets to that, but not over where i fly. but this issue is for your union to fight your management over, and if you win, then that is great. like i said, i dont care where i fly. WE have nothing to do with it. thats all im saying, behave professionally.

Maybe instead of spending so much time being upset at the TSA pilots, you ought to talk to your MEC and get the violation taken care of.
I know, it's easier to just **** and moan. Far be it for me to suggest actually doing something about a problem, but it seems like you'd get a lot further if you actually took some sort of initiative here instead of complaining behind a screen name on a web forum.

As stated in some other posts, it's not Trans States who's walking over YOUR contract...it's YOUR parent company walking over YOUR contract. TSA pilots didn't get up and say "ya know, MIA would be a nice place to hub out of" and then willingly jump in a bunch of Embrears and head off to the races. I feel for you guys, and wish you the best when it comes to getting back what's your's from management. But you'll do well to realize who your fight is really with, and it sure ain't a bunch of boys from Missouri.

what if it was struck work? would you feel any different? i am sure you would justify it then too.

Very good point mwa! And we have a no strike clause, so when do you consider work to be on par with "struck work".

you guys are stretching. that would be equal to crossing the picket line. your getting a little ridiculous. again, why dont you grow some balls and attack management instead of us. again, they got rid of your flying.

just making the point that rationalizing has no bounds

and you guys aren't rationalizing? lets not blame who's really responsible! lets blame tsa pilots because they are the easiest target! get real! WE DID NOT TAKE YOUR FLYING!!

I think that any TSA pilot who picked up this Miami flying and thought that they would be welcomed with open arms is confused. Its absurd to think that there would not be some animosity, because yes we are territorial in that respect. Here is the analogy as I see it (no disrespect intended):

A dog wanders into another dog's yard and starts marking territory (TSA). The dog who's yard it is probably isn't gonna be real happy (Eagle). Now maybe the gate was left open by the owner (AMR) but that's not gonna stop the rumble.

With that being said, I do not know first hand of any unprofessional conduct, and I don't have a personal grudge against TSA but I will say that starting this thread, for example, is like rubbing salt into a wound. It won't endear you to many Eagle pilots.

One idea though is for you guys (TSA) to all get together and pitch in to buy like a nice chicken wing platter or something for everyone. And drinks.
Think about it seriously.

....meanwhile the management that screwed all this up to start with (to bolster their pay CONSIDERABLY) is still laughing all the way to the bank. Over staffed and over paid "management" present in almost every single airline in this country should be called out and made accountable for the state of the industry as a whole and especially at the regional level. What are our unions doing??

You know what? With some of the posts on this board I really believe that your comparison to dogs is accurate. No wonder mgmt thinks we are just "expenses". Perhaps all this BS on this board and this thread is proof that we are as unprofessional as they believe.

Coming from another industry entirely, I've never seen such a group of complainers as pilots. People get the shaft in every job. The grass isn't greener anywhere else.

I think web forums are more of a disservice to ourselves and profession than they are a service. When I am out on the road, I see nothing but professionalism at every turn regarding the pilots. Come to this board, and arrows and flames fly everywhere.

All of the bickering will do none of us any good. TSA pilots are just doing what they were instructed to do and Eagle, who soon will be parking alot of aircraft are just defending what we were told was ours. If the roles were reversed TSA would be defending their seats and Eagle would be looking for more routes. Expect less than you desire and you will never be disappointed. Lets all stay positive this is going to be a tough time for all of us.