Delta changing its mind about cancelling pinnacle?
 

So since they announced at pinnacle that delta was cancelling our contract they have cancelled all the differences training classes and all the vacancies going into atlanta. a friend of mine who was waiting on upgrade to atlanta and had his class cancelled told me they called him on friday and they are starting the classes back again. and that they needed him to start as soon as possible. also the latest vacancy that just posted had 8 ca, and 8 fo slots open for ATL for the october vacancy. anyone else think this might be a good sign?

No .......

smoke and mirrors! :D

Wouldn't surprise me. The 900's are the only RJ's that really make $$$, it made no sense to cancel them when there are so many 50 seaters floating around.

Good sign? For Delta or Pinnacle?

My roomate is an APD for you guys and said that those captains in training or about to start (not sure) were told they will finish the upgrade type but wont do OE and will be going back to the right seat. FWIW remember everything is subject to change and either way good luck guys.

As it was explained to me by a 9e captain, since you guys bought the 900s you have a certain amount of free training per aircraft purchased available due to that. So it seems they are trying to get the best use out of that that they can.

No. You're grasping at straws.

this could very well be true. maybe we have just a certain amount of time/people that they are able to get through for free so why not hurry and get them through while it is no cost to the company.

ha. losing delta is not that big a deal for us. we have very few pilots over there. it only represents 2 percent of our flying and even less than that in our income. so grasping at straws?? nah. just posting information. most people over here dont care since we will be flying for delta in a year anyway once the merger goes through.

No big deal?? Pull your head out of your a%&. Who do you think is acquiring NWA. DAL. That means if DAL is shuttering the ATL flying they could be putting the squeeze on PNCL to remain a carrier at all. Its no secret they are actively trying to get rid of the 50 seat market here. That means that all 130+ aircraft could be easy targets in a merger. Does the ASA with Pinnacle and NWA specify that Pinnacle survives post merger? If not, DAL wouldn't have to take you to court at all to get rid of you. I'd be highly concerned if I were a Pinnacle pilot. The contract has gone on for years? Why no deal? Maybe Pinnacle doesn't feel they can raise their costs and remain competitive. They can't raise ticket prices, that's a mainline issue. Mainline can tell them that your rates are this and that's it. If costs go up because of a pilot deal then that's Pinnacle's problem.

Perhaps DAL wants to shed Comair and they boxing Pinnacle into a corner by saying if you want to remain a post merger carrier, buy Comair for $400 million. DAL gets the cash and you get a heartache.

Either way you are way to naive or ignorant to think that this simply means nothing for you.

wow you have issues man. "highly concerned?" "naive or ignorant?" why am i going to get worked up over something i cant control. my stress level about this entire industry is pegged at 0 right now. if we survive then i will hang in there. if not it may be the chance for me to move on to something else. but i will not get worked up about it. i have seen what happens to the guys who come to work worried everyday. next thing you know you are on bp medicine and getting divorced. this silly industry isn't worth all that.

and yes there is a merger clause in our contract with nwa and if delta bought us they would have to honor it. and performance is not a problem on the nwa side so they wont be able to use that against us. and the minimum planes we can have i believe is 112. after that if they want to take a 200 from us they have to replace it with a 900.

i can almost bet that dal would rather have the deal we have with nwa then the new one they made with us. think about it. we took a cut in profit in our new deal with nwa so nwa would let us go fly for other carriers. so nwa got a good deal out of us. delta doesn't want to pay us on two different scales after the merger so if they can get rid of the delta side and only be obligated to pay us on the cheaper nwa side, then why not?

If Delta is trying to replace 50 seat traffic with 900 traffic then why did they just kick out one of the best (if not the best) and cheapest performing 900 operators in the entire ATL base? Who, btw, owns it's own planes (i.e. no capital investment req'd as the 9E 900 base (would have) grown, freeing up capital for the merger). I won't be concerned unless they start fooling with the NWA contract.

Like airsupport said...I'm not stressed at all--I'll either have a flying job after the merger or I won't. I have a great GPA, instructor ratings, and the ability to go to grad school or work in a variety of other better-paying jobs if need be. Big deal.

PS> I think it's a little bit below the belt/unprofessional the way some DAL mainline guys are on these threads talking down to us regional guys like we're a bunch of spoiled children, or that we deserve to lose our flying/jobs just because we haven't been through a f-lough and they have. I'll never wish that upon anyone, even if it's a company that's taking flying from my company. You have better paid in-house lawyers and you make more money than us, and have more experience than (most) of our pilots (yeah, we have some lifers here who have way more time in this industry than you, and a few military guys too)...so why do you guys need to come on apc and make side comments bashing down the optimism of the few guys on here who are trying to rationalize a bad thing that happened to our company?

Per Delta's sched bulleting from last Friday, 9E will continue to fly their routes well after Sep 1st.

Actually, airsupport could be right. Even though these are all rumors I think there is a bigger possibility of Delta keeping us vs dropping us. (sorry delta4ever). Why would 9e reopen bids/vacancies to go back to ATL? I do think their is some sort of training deal that they have to train the pilots-but I highly doubt that they would revamp stuff and start new classes for the 900 if they were to completely shut us down. But who knows. We'll know more later and then we can all point our fingers and say, "i told you so"

it is a low blow when people come on here and bash others......

The bottom line on those training vacancies is this-- we own the friggin planes. It is one of (if not the) most efficient a/c around. It would make sense to keep those 900 pilots current/trained in the event that 1) We somehow keep the DL flying, or 2) We convince NW to swap out 16 50-seaters and put those 900s in their place. Not sure how bidding would work if those planes were transferred to a new base, but keeping those planes flying is going to be an important financial consideration, and having at least some pilots trained and current to fly it keeps the continuity if either of the above scenarios develop.

Now let's get a contract ya'll.

Where is this? Can you copy and paste this? And what is "well after" Sept. 1st?

A lot of us down here are keeping are fingers crossed about the whole situation. Many of us are from Atlanta, and I've never seen crews work this hard -- more now than ever -- to get flights out on time and back in within 14 minutes. But we all know how it goes, there is just so much out of our control.

So we're all hoping for the best. Many of us do believe this is a scare tactic.... forcing 9E into doing, well.. doing something..... whether it be getting a contract for the pilots or lowering costs to Delta... or something else.... we don't know.

amen. now this something i WILL get behind. i have been rallying and picketing for over 2 years now. i want a contract NOW! and who knows, maybe we will have one friday night!!! ;)

ps. once again i will put my disclaimer about not getting my hopes up. pinnacle pilots have seen this promise come and go before. we will just have to keep up the good fight till we get one.

My post was not below the belt. I was just a bit incredulous that he thought losing the DAL flying was "no big deal". If they get rid of 10 MD-80s here, it is a very "big deal". That involves flying jobs, lost opportunities, etc.

I am an anomaly at DAL in that I am 100% civilian. Flight instructed, flew night freight, flew at two regionals, etc. I have many close friends still at the regionals and never hit below the belt to them because I remember not to many years ago the caliber of pilot that I flew with. I loved their enthusiasm, love of flying, building the hours, talking about who got hired where, and the over all can do attitude. I never dampen it. I welcome it. It is the only thing that gives me hope for this crazy industry.

I am just amazed at how times have changed. I think its telling that pilots really think the worst that can happen to them is that they get furloughed, go back to grad school and look for employment outside of flying. I hope management is smart enough to read these threads and take note. If pilots don't feel like they are a hostage to the industry then they may bolt en masse if it gets worse. Things will get really interesting if the regionals can't staff classes or their cockpits.

I wish you all the best of luck, I am simply correcting an opinion that I felt was rather cavalier that's all.

[quote=nicholasblonde;405246] or that we deserve to lose our flying/jobs just because we haven't been through a f-lough and they have. quote]

I didn't see where this was posted, but tell whoever it was to get his facts straight before he starts throwing stones. 9e has been thru furlough...and lots of guys that work at 9e have been furloughed from other companies.

1. Deltanet. 2. I can't because it's proprietary (i.e. like'd to keep my job) 3. Sept 31st

So Delta actually put out a memo saying that 9E will be flying for them up until Sept 31st? Or.... is that an old schedule with old planned routes that were planned before the announcement about our flying getting taken away....? Details on any info you might know would be very much appreciated..

I wouldn't put a lot of stock in deltanet...my commutes routinely get changed a few days out.

Just reading the original post you are referring to, had I not worked at pinnacle I would have read into "no big deal" about losing 16 airplanes the same way you did. But, having lost 15 airplanes at a time at Pinnacle before, when you are as short staffed as we are, it really is no big deal to the pilot group in regards to furlough,schedules etc. It simply means less junior assignments and extensions. When we lost a 15 CRJ's to Mesaba a few years ago, lots of my mainline buddies called and couldnt believe we werent furloughing, it actually brought us down to a manageable staffing level.

Where on DeltaNet? I got it open right now.

Well I think that statement just vindicates what I have been saying about some of you guys on here from Pinnacle.

Note:
Now, before all of you guys get on me again, I want to make it perfectly clear that this is only directed at the guys who don't think it is a problem with themsleves flying the -900 for those rates. You can be flying it and be perfectly cool in my book, if you agree its bogus pay and that ANY Delta and Northwest pilot can dislike you as much as they want.

Basically you just admitted that the Delta guys shouldn't be upset that you fly the -900 for subpar wages compared to mainline DC-9 and MD-80 pay, which the -900 is replacing.

Just so everyone else knows a little well kept secret about some of the fresh new Pinnacle pilots. A lot of UND grads went there with barely over 200 hours total and 25 hours multi. I'm from UND and loved it there, so that comment isn't a bash towards UND. Just trying to shed some light on some of the pilots that have been hired over at Pinnacle recently. Doesn't this just make you just all warm and fuzzy that this Pinnacle pilot just got on a DELTA MAINLINE PILOT'S CASE?

Oh, Airsupport, I can't wait for you to dig yourself out of this one.

oh god, here comes tpersuit with his flame baits again.. lets see in one post you bashed pinnacle pilots, low time guys, 900 rates, und, etc etc. man you just cant help yourself can you. you will be glad to know i forgot all about you till this post so i haven't been talking about you while in flight. are you trying to set a record for closing threads with your flame bait?? GGM

any way your ignorance once again is showing. you are bashing us for our 900 rates?? you do know that a mediator set those rates right. you do know we had no say in those rates right? you do know that everyone else out there that flies 900's set the bar for our rates right? nah you didn't know that. you couldn't have. if you did know that then why would you bash the pilots who had nothing to do with it. we didn't vote on that rate. we didn't negotiate that rate. it was assigned to us. nothing we could do.

we have had 0 low time guys in the last few classes. we have however had several ata, fedex, skyway, and champion guys come here. but you wouldn't know anything about that either now would you.

tpersuit please do us ALL a favor and go away.. i hate having to think about you all the time!! HAHAHAHAHA...:p

yes but you can trust it a little more than you gave it credit. it was using delta net that my friend at asa found out that dallas would be closing before it was announced!

You guys talk about still training for the 900 and how they are filling vacancies and how in september you show 9E flying for delta. They are always going to continue on business as usual to staff their flying in case they do continue with delta so they arent caught with their pants down. Also yes they will still show you flying with delta on their schedules down the road until something is definite about losing a contract. At ASA we are losing the old ATR's all gone by december but it still shows ATR's on travelnet well into 2009.

FedEx guys?? What were they fired?? Somehow, I just don't see someone living off $250K + with a pension, long layovers, 12 day months, etc., coming over to Pinnacle to make $16K a year, 3% on a 401k and fly with a company that "doesn't respect the pilots". That quote comes from nearly every Pinnacle pilot on this forum. How about quit acting like a 17 year old on a roid high every time someone questions you and check the facts you use to support your arguments.

Actually we've had a few fedex pilots come over. They retired at fedex right before new age 65, then came to work at pinnacle when age 65 came into effect. Boost to the social security benefits and alimony.

Actually, there were some Fedex age 60+ that were recently hired. Who is on the roids again? :D Doubt they'll fly for us long though. I can't imagine anyone from Fedex dealing with our schedulers for more than 3 seconds. Two different planets. "Junior Man??? Yeah I gotcher junior man right here buddy! CLICK!"

On that, we're in complete agreement. I envision him getting the junior man call and having flashbacks to getting a field draft at FedEx where he made more from a trip than he'll make in a year at Pinnacle. The flashbacks will be to much. Sadly, Pinnacle rampees will find him naked in a fetal position in the cargo hold of the CRJ sucking his thumb saying "there's no place like home Phil, there's no place like home".

Airsupport will never get it. I even predicted his typical response before it even happened: Totalling ignoring the points I made and making it seem like I was ripping on every Pinnacle pilot, when in reality I was not. I quoted what I said earlier and you can see I wasn't ripping on all Pinnacle pilots, just those that think they are God's gift to aviation. Airsupport's typical response always involves twisting my words around to distract from the point I made about he feels he is self entitled over mainline pilots.

Notice how I said some, not all of the pilots at Pinnacle. He totally side stepped the fact that there are UND grads that have been hired at Pinnacle this past year with 200 hours total and 25 hours multi. Remember I went to UND and loved it, so it is not a bash on UND at all, just me pointing out a sad truth.

Airsupport lives in this fantasy world, where he thinks that when he and his fellow cronies, who act entitled like he does, all bash me, he thinks that I am in the wrong. I just wish the good pilots over at Pinnacle would just get on here and tell Airsupport how bad it really is to fly the -900 at those rates. As I said earlier, I have no gripe with any -900 pilot who agrees those rates are hogwash. I do find it funny that when other pilots have brought up Airline Pilot Central to me, Airsupport is mentioned as a guy they can't stand. I usually just laugh, without telling them how much I actually get into it on here with him... "Oh yeah, yeah I've read his posts before, that guy is out there." :rolleyes:

Those who left FDX when turning 60 and before the age 65 rule was passed were SOL for going back. I don't know the guy who came here but his chapter with FDX was done once he retired. I do not understand why he would want to come over here to fly 1000 hours a year in an RJ but there are plenty of interesting things going on with FDX staffing right now.

Not starting a battle, just presenting another light.

HAHAHA.. no sir. THIS MADE ME LAUGH!! you actually talk about this when you are out and about? wow... :eek:

please see the following posts to see if i have been twisting your words, and what others thought of his "out there" posts:

http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/sh...ad.php?t=27348

http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/sh...ad.php?t=27214

http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/sh...ad.php?t=27262

http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/sh...ad.php?t=27029

i could go on, and on. you have locked so many threads with flame bait.

i am done responding to you tpersuit. you obviously dont listen to anyone but yourself. even when EVERYONE ELSE IS TELLING You to **** you still carry on... good luck and good night.

Airsupport, you will never learn... sad

Honestly. What the hell is a Delta pilot doing trolling around regional threads? What impact does that have on you at all and exactly how much accurate input can you provide? You are just like every other pilot, a blue collar worker trying to make white collar wages. At the Legacy level you are getting decent pay but you have ZERO input into the direction of the company. And I hope you are not too junior because your butt will be looking to fly a RJ after the merger if furloughs are incurred.

I have watched and just am curious as to tpersuit and his holiness thoughts on other airlines. You are sooo proud of your airline and work rules you just seem to need to remind everyone else of it. Why do you put so much effort into things that don't affect you? Why are you right and everyone else wrong....Especially when it is not even your airline? Get a girlfriend or a dog man.

Any news to support a positive for the industry right now is good news. We are a pilot group. Unfortunately we do not factor into the day to day decisions so we can only work to better our own circumstances. Bashing others is what is absolutely wrong with this industry.

It's like bragging about being the tallest midget at the carnival. Dude, you are still a midget.

This fighting is ridiculous. Like Airsupport said, those rates were decided for us. And they are based on the old contract. On top of that, while I would agree some of the rates are not so hot, others are at the very least average or better. How many other regional airlines offer first year FO's $26 per hour to start? Not sure how many. Some airlines don't even distinguish between types of RJ. So cut your beef with Pinnacle and get out of here. Looks like you're just going around picking fights.

But, hopefully if this new TA is as close as everybody says.... they will be going up even more. We'll see...

How about getting back on topic. Anybody have other info about DL possibly reversing their decision?

The only word I heard was that they were increasing our flights for the month of July, we will not have a spare, we have postponed any new delivery for now....