Chapter 7 For Mesa
 

Chapter 11 May Not Work This Time
Chapter 11 may not be an option during this economic crisis, according to analysts who think the capital to fund restructuring and exit bankruptcy will not be there since airlines are such a poor investment. This coupled with creditors, seeing the writing on the wall, forcing the sale of assets, does not bode well for Mesa which said that if Delta’s contract with Freedom is actually cancelled it could force a Chapter 11 filing by mid-July. The industry has already seen numerous carriers eliminated such as Aloha which went directly to Chapter 7 recently.
Mesa was also notified on May 22 that it does not comply with NASDAQ filing requirements for continued listing and could be "de-listed" from The NASDAQ Global Select Market. It has requested a hearing before a NASDAQ Listing Qualifications Panel to review the Staff Determination. The Notice arises as a result of Mesa's failure to timely file its Form 10-Q for the quarter ended March 31, 2008.

Your obsession with Mesa is unhealthy! Feel free to chime in on any of the other thousands of posts on APC!

plus didn't they just post a profit

That and the title is extremely misleading. Maybe throw a question mark on the end of it so that everybody doesn't think that it already happened.

Old news.

Go to yahoo finance and read the transcript of our earnings call.

Educate yourself, then post.

And yes, we did post a small profit.

you know, if JO pulls this off, he will become the foremost expert in how to run an airline in trying time. :(

He is still an a...h....

Let me be clear. Mesa did not report an operating profit. They reported an operating loss for the 1st quarter 2008 as they have for several quarters in a row now. Here is a copy of what I posted on another thread.



You are right. Creative accounting. They are accounting for a one time gain of 27.5 million dollars related to the Hawaiian lawsuit that Mesa lost. They posted a bond for $80 million, and only had to pay $52.5 million, so they are counting the 27.5 million dollars as a profit. :rolleyes: Gotta love Mesa. It's funny because they never included the $80 million dollars in any of their quarterly losses, but they can suddenly report this 27.5 million dollars as income.:confused:

The bottom line is Mesa has had an operating loss for many quarters in a row now, and the most important fact is their unrestricted cash position, which is down to only $55 million dollars. In the airline industry, cash is time. Therefore, Mesa does not have very much time. BTW, that $55 million was over 90 days ago (back when oil was still $100/barrel). My guess is their cash position is much lower than that. Now let's wait and see what happens with their Delta contract. The end is near.

Amen. The guy helped cause the biggest mass layoffs in Hawaii's history when Aloha went down. It sucks even more because I was part of it. Glad to read that go! is still reporting losses and only 70% LF!

I listened to their 2Q earning call that took place yesterday. I found it odd that they had a 2Q earnings call before they have released their 1Q filing. Anyway, someone asked JO what their cash is on the balance sheet and JO could not answer at the advice of his lawyers. Played it off as he would have to put out another press release to disclose the info. I laughed when I heard that. That means you have no cash, that is how I read it.

Right on Bro!! although their accountants call it pro forma accounting!!!

PRO FORMA is a Latin Phrase that in the modern day business k-10 climate, suggests a free hand usage of a convoluted, intricate, and at times, unorthodox implementation of creative accounting. Such slight of hand methods were used to derive the makeovered earnings. EBITA, or Earnings before interest, tax and amortisation (EBITA) is what mesa used when they reported their earnings. It is similar to EBIT but strips out amortisation. Amortisation is always a non-cash item and therefore of limited interest to investors.

Amortisation is of less interest than depreciation (itself excluded from many measures) because it relates to intangible assets, and it cannot be used as even a rough proxy for replacement cost.

Mesa will continue to report utilizing pro forma, ebita, and yes, even pornography to explain its accounting practices, and I would be extremely wary and cautious about believing anything else other than this company will be out of business in a short while.

Incase you are wondering...

Mesa Air Group - Press Releases

Search for the word cash. You will see Mesa has about $55 million in unrestricted cash. This was as of March 30, 2008.

Numbers can be misleading and changed to look the way you want it to. Remember Enron? Mesa will probably end up the same way.

Yes, I knew that go!'s pax numbers were up. That's a given. However, go! is still not making any money.

Go! posts $8.3 million loss | starbulletin.com | Business | /2008/07/01/

Sorry, I wasn't trying to refute what you were saying. You post just reminded me of that USA Today article.

not that i want to see any other pilot lose his or her job but, if it means i keep my job oh well. please dont post stuff like this i thought my job security just went through the roof!!

It's all good :)

America Baby!!!
 

we are all pilots and we have to stick together.

If an airline managerial staff causes undue pain and suffering, not only is it your right, it is your obligation to follow through with harsh criticism regarding your treatment.

We are the pilots, we have to stick together.

If this is how you feel, then quit rooting for me and my co-workers to lose our jobs.

Instead, join our cause: Rooting for a buyout (or anything else that gets every piece of MAG brass out of here) and a improved contract.

We don't enjoy being the worst airline in the regional industry, but after spending 2 years here, the left seat I am sitting in is my ticket out of regionals and to a better life. There are hundreds more just like me.

Please help (if it is only moral support) us keep our paychecks coming, and futures alive. Putting 500 CA's on the street with less than 1000 TPIC, and countless FO's out of a job will do nothing but make our (the airline industry) situation worse.

Do you really want to see more pilots on the street?

Do you really want to see JO out at the expense of 1600 pilots?

Well said paxhauler85!

When you went there to get the sacred 1000 TPIC did you think about how Mesa wrecks the rest of the industry? Did you think about the pilots who are screwed regularly by JO and his business practices? Inside and outside of Mesa?

Don't say you don't enjoy working for the worst airline in the industry when you went there by choice. For the past several years any pilot could have gone to just about any other carrier. But instead hundreds of pilots have decided that they were going to sell themselves out to Mesa for the quick upgrade.

The contract at Mesa has been used as the example to every other pilot in this business to cut costs. "Mesa does it for this price, why won't you?" "Mesa allows only 8 days per month off? Why won't you do it like that?"

So don't come whining when many parts of the rest of the industry would like nothing more than to see Mesa as a company go away. The business practices that Mesa has used are examples of why this business is going downhill.

Do I want to see Mesa pilots without jobs? No. But nobody there didn't know exactly what they were signing up for when they signed up.

Not whining at all, just asking why everyone has such a hard on to see another airline furlough and go under.

This place was quite different when I got here in early 2006.

Your wasting your time asking these questions. These guys are like fat ladies walking around with two Christams hams under both arms asking, " Wheres the bread!" They are never satisfied at all. So what do they do? com on this site and troll around for chances to blame MESA or any other cause for there low QOL. It's amazing how much power MESA has to lay sway over the entire airline industry. You guys make me laugh! If it's that bad then fix it instead of bellyaching about your current situation. Oh! I forgot thats too much like right! better choose the easy route and knash your teeth and hate on the evil MESA Airline. We may not be the best airline, but IM proud of my coworkers, we stick together inspite of the decisions of Management.

Oh! and for the lame old tired excuse you guys always throw out, You know about " You guys had choices to go to other airlines" give it a break! Alot of us tried that route and did not get accepted. So rather than quit, and just roll over we went with MESA, and yes we knew what we were getting into, somtimes thats the price one has to pay to further ones career.

If you guys dont like your current situation then exercise other options you have, instead of defaulting to the old blame MESA bit: it really is old hat. This is a nasty industry we are ALL in at the moment, but if your only course of action is to play the blame game as many of you have enjoyed doing, then you have already lost, and will be nothing more than cynical old B.......d's. The choice is yours.

You've got to be kidding me!! :eek: Mesa has been a cancer since long before 2006. Besides, if you've only been there 2+ years and are captain and are whining about not having your 1000 TPIC yet..... well, boo hoo. It is clear that you went there with no intent of doing anything except that. Now it comes around to bite. Karma's a ....., huh?

I'll stop now. But don't expect the rest of the airline world to feel too sorry.

A cancer yes, but the morale and QOL were much, much better then.

Where in my post did I whine about not having my 1000? I said that this job ("the left seat I am sitting in") was my ticket to get a job with the majors/fractionals.

I upgraded in 2 years, and I am quite happy with my career thus far at Mesa.

Don't put words in my mouth.

Please don't post things like this

As for Mesa circa late 2006, the QOL may have been better than it is now, but the work rules were still way below almost every other regional and the morale was not good.

Many of you may not have had another choice, but if you did your research you would have known that you were taking a gamble on Mesa. After being there for six months you could have interviewed somewhere else as a more marketable candidate and tried to get better job security.

I'm not blaming or judging anybody on their choices, but the fact remains that the writing has been on the wall at Mesa for quite some time now.

do you guys really work for 8 days off a month? i didn't see that get refuted after it was thrown out there.:eek:

Well it's 8 days on reserve 10 with a line per bid period so on avg per month it's 9 on rsv. 11 with a line. Most lines I have seen don't have more than the min.

A company of this size probably needs about 30 million to execute a liquidation.

JO's nutsack is on the chopping block and hopefully we'll get to listen to his nutless squeling by early next year at the latest.

Note to UAL, DAL and U management - Guys ......don't worry when these clowns flop. There's too much capacity and there will be other feeders who've trimmed over the next few months ready to take over Mesa's mess.

SACK these idiots !

They're trying to.

Hopefully this post will prove informational to those of you who can put together a sentence larger than two words. Yes, a reserve line at Mesa will land you 8 days off, and a hard line 10, but unlike almost all other carriers, Mesa operates on 28 day bid cycles. 13 bids a year. Our number of days off still suck, but for all those saying we lowered the bar on pay, do some math. The following information in based on the payscale on APC for 3rd year 50 seat jet captains times minimum guarantee. These numbers equate to one years salary:

Mesa $52,780
XJet $52,200
Comair $53,100
Pinnacle $53,100
Trans States $52,392

With that in mind, yes, Mesa still sucks. However, they probably have the friendliest most considerate pilot group out of all the regionals. If Mesa does pull out of this inverted flat spin with no wings, I assure you the pilots will not settle for another contract like the one in place.
Peace out.

Now factor in that Mesa pays historical block instead of the standard block or better and you'll probably see the other airline's pay go up a solid $10k a year to account for delays and over gurantee.

I will add that I have NEVER had a bad experience on a Mesa flight, and I have jumped many times. The crews have been fantastic. But the company stinks.

I am torn between the folks who work for the company and the leadership of that same company.

We have ex-Mesa pilots at my carrier and they are terrific. Just flew with an F/O who is ex-Mesa. Solid as a rock.

I don't wish ill for the crews at Mesa.

I think work rules would ultimately make a significant different in pay.
-Historic Block or better
-Duty & Trip Rigs
-Cancelation Pay
-100% dead head pay
-Performance Bonuses

There are more things to consider but hourly pay rates are usually just the beginning of the story

Well, since some of those numbers appear incorrect, here are the numbers, as I saw them, based on the pay scale on APC. I also added Per Diem based on 200 hours or TAFB (Time Away From Base). This is strictly minimum guarantee and based on the reserve guarantee.

3rd year CA_______________Per Diem______Total
XJet_________$58,500______$4,080_______$62,580
Amr Eagle_____$58,500______$4,080_______$62,580
Republic,CHQ_ $56,700______$3,960_______$60,660
Mesaba______$56,700______$3,720_______$60,420
Skywest_____$55,800_______$3,960_______$59,760
Comair_______$53,100______$3,720_______$56,820
Pinnacle_____$53,100_______$3,360_______$56,460
Mesa________$52,986______$3,072_______$56,058
Trans States_$49,560_______$3,360_______$52,920

3rd year FO______________Per Diem____Total
XJet________$33,300______$4,080______$37,380
Skywest_____$33,300______$3,960______$37,260
Amr Eagle____$32,400______$4080______$36,480
Republic,CHQ_$32,400______$3960_______$36,360
Comair______$31,500_______$3,720_____$35,220
Mesa_______$29,184_______$3,072_____$32,256
Mesaba______$27,900______$3,720_____$31,620
Pinnacle_____$27,000______$3,360______$30,360
Trans States_$26,880______$3,360______$30,240


2nd year FO______________Per Diem_____Total
Skywest_____$31,500______$3,960______$35,460
XJet________$30,600______$4,080______$34,680
Comair______$30,600_______$3,720_____$34,320
Amr Eagle____$29,700______$4,080______$33,780
Republic,CHQ_$27,900______$3,960______$31,860
Mesa________$26,448______$3,072_____$29,520
Mesaba______$25,200______$3,720_____$28,920
Pinnacle_____$21,600______$3,360______$24,960
Trans States_$21,000______$3,360______$24,360

Don't forget work rules and performance bonuses (neither of which mesa has). A 3rd year SKW CA will probably make $75K, assuming higher-than-guarantee lines.

I debated typing this because it sickens me to defend this company, especially in public, and especially during contract negotiations.

Here’s how it works at mesa. You are guaranteed 70hrs/bid of which there are 13. Any junior assignment or volunteer flying is double time above the guarantee.

Example: I fly 65 regular hours and am junior assigned an additional 15 hours in a bid. 70 hr min + (15 x 2) = 100 hours.

As a second year FO I will very easily clear 40k this year. I know CA's that clear 100k. My basic attitude is this: Mesa will consistently try to F me, and often they succeed. All I can do is try to F them back for every penny I can get. I try to play the game better and smarter than they do, and sometimes I succeed and sometimes I don’t. Yes I go into work everyday with a militaristic attitude. I wish I didn’t have to, but I do. I agonize over open time numbers and work over my schedule with a fine-tooth comb. I argue with crew tracking often. I am the king of open time IAD-IAH-IAD day trips. Why? Because they’re worth 14 hours of pay, keep me in my own bed, and time me out for other junior assignments on days I have plans. You have to be smart, know your contract, and stick up for yourself or this company will run through your ass.

I’m fortunate because I don’t have a wife or kids and because I live in base. Admittedly I’m in a better defensive position than some. There is so much that is wrong with this company that I wouldn’t know where to start. I do not mean to defend mesa.

You can bust my balls about working for a bottom feeder, fair enough. And you can make fun of my 11 days off a month, yeah that sucks. But don’t think I’m not getting paid...

Obviously mesa has work rules written into the CBA. Unless you're talking about rigs...

Mesa also has performance bonuses (though awarded rarely).


I know many 3 year captains that do that at mesa too, granted they'll have to work more than the skywest fellow to do it.

So, your point is..................?