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Old 07-06-2008 | 05:52 AM
  #21  
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Ok, so in all seriousness and I'm not being sarcastic, to sum it all up: people find their self image much more important than paying the bills. I guess it's much better knowing that people "think" Im this highly paid professional and it's all a big secret that we are paid a pretty pathetic wage for doing what we do. (and Im talkin about all you captains out there that have put in your time and got nothing for it.) If we are in the same league as "doctors and surgeons" as some people pointed out, why have we been taken so advantage of with respect to pay? You don't see any doctor or surgeon just keep on working as if nothing changed when the person that pays them just decided to pay them significantly less.

So you were "ok" with flying for a significantly less than people were paid before but being "tipped" or given a "pat on the back" for the fact that the passengers now know how little we are paid is not ok. Sounds kind of silly and contradicting to the point of upholding our self image.
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Old 07-06-2008 | 06:03 AM
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Originally Posted by afterburn81
I searched for this subject and to my surprise didn't find much of anything on it on APC. However, if it has been talked about and I'm missing something I apologize.

Well, by now we all know that the industry is suffering and we as pilots will always feel the effects which make for much unneeded stress and changes to our QOL. So I'm going to be up front and say that I hope we can keep this thread serious and as mature as we can. It seems as though all that takes priority with-in the industry is only in the best interest of the share holders and quite frankly I'm sure we are all fed up with it. What about us? We really need to start thinking about ourselves as crew members and our hard work and dedication we put forth everyday. Our safety record (of which we have control over) is pretty impressive given all of the risks and hazards we are confronted with everyday. Passengers have no clue what we do to get them to their destination safely, comfortably and on time. For that we should be rewarded not by our companies but by the customers themselves.

I don't understand why there has never been a crew member "tipping" process implemented (although I suppose the netjet guys may be taken care of). In every other facet of the travel industry people are tipped. For example - cab drivers, limo drivers, charter bus drivers, boat crews, hotel drivers etc. Why is it not assumed that passengers should tip their crewmembers (including FA's) for their job well done? Of course I understand that people have the misconception that pilots make way too much which is not the case.

Take a 70 seater RJ for example: Do a good job as a crew and everyone feels compelled to tip 1 dollar. Well that's $70 for the crew to split 4 ways. 17.50 a person and say you do 4 legs that day. Well that's 70 extra bucks you made that day. Do this each day of a 4 day and that's an extra 280 in your pocket that the wife nor the gov has to know how much you pulled in. This is just an example and I know there are other variables. I know that amongst all of those ungrateful pax there are a few generous ones out there that would put a few bucks in the bowl if they knew it was the right thing to do and eventually just like in the food industry it would be only natural for people to tip. Obviously there would be some complications with the logistics of this process and who gets to divide it up and how that would be done. But hey, restaurants have no problem doing it.

In all seriousness does anyone have anything else to add on why this couldn't be a reality? I'd be willing to do what ever I could to find this a tradition in every cabin, especially in these times where guys are taking stupid pay cuts again. Thanks for your input and please keep it professional.

AB~
Pilots should not have to rely on tips to survive, they are professional aviators, not pizza delivery drivers.
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Old 07-06-2008 | 10:32 AM
  #23  
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Ladies and gentlemen, this is your captain speaking...... It looks like we only have $75 in the tip jar and we need a solid $100 to take off. Also in order to land at the correct destination we need an additional $100 in the tip jar. We thank you for your compliance and once you have tipped us, just sit back, relax and enjoy your flight...... where you have to pay for drinks and the crappy snack pack.
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Old 07-06-2008 | 10:46 AM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by flyguyniner11
i think tipping would take the profession down a notch, along the lines of the after mentioned cab drivers, hotel drivers, etc etc
Agreed !!! I needed 10 characters
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Old 07-06-2008 | 10:57 AM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by afterburn81
You don't see any doctor or surgeon just keep on working as if nothing changed when the person that pays them just decided to pay them significantly less.
Indeed, and that is the point! You do NOT see them, because they don't do it. Picture it, the ambulance rushes into the ER. Motor vehicle accident. The guy has a broken arm and a broken leg. The Emergency physicians stabilize him, then call the orthopedic surgeon and explain the details. First question the surgeon asks- "does he have insurance?"

If the answer is yes, he'll come in and do his work, because he knows he'll be paid when he bills. If the answer is no, the surgeon stays at home, because he knows that there's a very real chance that he will not be paid for his services.

I's high time pilots realized that we have the industry by the gonads and refuse to work for less than we're worth. Doctors do it. Lawyers do it. Engineers do it. Mechanics do it. Plumbers do it. Why don't pilots do it?
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Old 07-06-2008 | 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Senior Skipper
I's high time pilots realized that we have the industry by the gonads and refuse to work for less than we're worth. Doctors do it. Lawyers do it. Engineers do it. Mechanics do it. Plumbers do it. Why don't pilots do it?
RLA. RLA. RLA. RLA.

That should be 10 characters.
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Old 07-06-2008 | 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Blkflyer
also in the professions you mention their is a progression that is usually followed, a Doc typically gets a Degree then goes to Med School then does a few years of residency then maybe a fellowship or 2.. that can take years then once all this if finished you have to pass boards some way along the way..
And there is no progression in aviation? You get your private, then commercial, an instrument somewhere along the way, maybe a CFI/MEI, figure out how you're gonna get a hundred hours of multi, then start at a good regional, make $22,000 a year, get furloughed, move to a crummy regional with growth, a couple years later upgrade to Captain, then be on reserve for a couple years, then just as you start to get some QOL you have to finish that college degree and start interviewing with the majors where, after several job fairs and interviews, you might get a job making $40,000, you're commuting across the country to their junior base, and hope there's no furloughs because five years later you're making $70,000 but you're still only 80 numbers from the bottom. Maybe in another 15 years, if the airline that selected you is still around, you'll be making about what a MD is earning. Speaking of having to pass the boards, how many chances will a career pilot have to bust a ride or lose his medical?


Now comes the FAST TRACK to flying a Jet doing .70 mach at FL 360 all you need is several thousand dollars and you too can fly a jet in 9 months.
The door closed on this guy a month ago, now he's wishing he had a CFI ticket in addition to 20 hours in a CRJ simulator. You aren't saying a new-hire regional FO has the same lifestyle as a surgeon or attorney, are you? Of course, the public may think so.
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Old 07-06-2008 | 11:45 AM
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You knew what the pay was when you accepted the job didn't you? If you want tips work for Dominos on your days off.
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Old 07-06-2008 | 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Rama
You knew what the pay was when you accepted the job didn't you? If you want tips work for Dominos on your days off.
Compared to the payscale I signed up for, I'm down about $9,000 each year thanks to BK and pay cuts.

Your airline gives you days off???
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Old 07-06-2008 | 12:23 PM
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I would never accept a tip as a professional Aviator...
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