Is the regional life really that bad for single guys/ladies?
 

For the last two years I have read these forums on an almost daily basis( I know, Im an addict and Im not even an airline pilot). It's obvious that for many, the airline lifestyle and current wages suck, especially at the regional level. HOWEVER, it seems that many of those that complain about the negatives with the industry are married, have kids, or expected to live in a mansion and have playboy bunnies chase after them because hey, "I'm a pilot";).

Specifically for you single guys and gals out there, how is the regional life. I know, the first year has to suck because even if you arent married or dont have kids, $16-18k/year is not a whole lot to live on. But after a year or two, how are you liking life?

This thread isnt intended to bash on the married pilots or those with kids, but I do get tired sometimes of hearing about those who cant support a non-working wife and 4 kids. I want a different perspective since I dont intend on getting married for a long time( I can already hear many of your comments about that one), and the thought of children does not exactly thrill me. Thanks for the input!

Its called a profession and it should pay a liveable wage whether or not your married with kids. But since your tired of hearing from the married guys that actually did the "I'm a pilot" thing for a living I'll shut up now...

I'm single and I don't have too many complaints. I did the whole "significant other" thing for the first 9 months of my airline life. Great girl, but it eats up a lot of time. In the end, it pulled a Skybus and went belly-up overnight. The girl wasn't as cheap as them though...and she didn't look like a park ranger.

The job is a lot easier when the only person you have to worry about is yourself. I have very little complaints right now but I'm relatively "safe" with all that's going on right now. Right place at the right time I guess. If you're the type of person that needs stability in their lives whether it's with relationships, jobs, etc...this industry is not for you. If you can sleep at night ignoring a lot of the BS that comes along with the job, you'll be fine. I sleep like a baby.

This is the Greatest Job in the world.............however it is one of the worst careers as well.


IM a 2nd year F/O, Im on schedule to make $56,000.00 this year

One time
 

At one time I was a single regional pilot with no kids. Things change. By then though you will wish you had made more money and had a better schedule.

I did not like being off while everyone else was at work or school and being gone while everyone at home was home and doing stuff.

I wish that pilots had more portable value to the marketplace. You really begin to feel like you are building experience towards nothing after a while. At least I did.

SkyHigh

Regardless of what you do, having kids will change your perspective on many things. Being a freight dog spending two weeks or so going to many different places is fine. Having little ones at home means you don't want to be gone for long stretches not to mention the financial responsibilities. The biggest drawback to regional flying is the paycheck.

If you mean "the life" like traveling to exotic places, partying on overnights, etc. while making crap money save yourself the trouble and just become an F/A. You get to live "the life" without investing all the time and money it takes to become a pilot. [extreme sarcasm]

At $34 that is 1,647 credit hours in one year or 137 per month on average.


How?

Thats what great Work rules can do for ya. Last month Flew 80hrs, got paid for 123 :). Weather cancellations, 30/7 issues etc.........

An example is I had to work one leg back on a day off (WX cancellation on the return flight). So the one leg back was a min of 3.75 @ 150%, and I still got a day off restored, I chose a day that originally had a 7:50 day trip, so I was able to fly another day, and not run into 30/7 issues etc.......

We also have day trips that look like thus

EWR-OKC
OKC-IAH

Deadhead on CAL, IAH-EWR, 4hr dead= basically a 10hr day trip

i block 80/50 month on month out for the past 8 months at ASA and this month i have 11 days off vacation and i worked it out to stretch 24 days off total....it is what is is ladies...

...
 

To answer the original question-



Yes.

MAN I wish TSA had work rules like that...

I'm a single guy and I love the job. First year pay wasn't great, but I still managed to buy drinks for my friends on my days off.

I commute, and being single in this category is huge. Not having to worry about disappointing somebody by not making a flight is a huge advantage. On my days off if I don't feel like going home, I just hop a flight to go visit any of my favorite relatives or buddies from college and high school. Your roll-a-board will become like a your mobile home.

Flying airplanes for a living is awesome. Sitting in hotel rooms is actually a good way to rewind after traveling, partying or doing chores on your days off. I enjoy never having to make your bed, clean dishes and not paying for utilities. I bring my computer, watch movies, read all the books I wanted to in college but was too busy studying/drinking/recovering and catch up on my sleep.

Having good work rules does wonders for QOL and pay. I'm on second year FO pay and basically my pay breaks down to: 50K for day work weeks, 40K for 4 days and 30K for 3 day work weeks.

From a single guys perspective I definitely endorse the job. Good luck

At some point in your 30's you'll wake up in a hotel room, not knowing what day it is or where you are, and think "Why am I doing this?"

It can be fun until then, but nonetheless, this moment will come.

I think it is all about your own situation.

I have no kids, dual income, no car payment, a mortgage and a student loan. The bills get paid. I go out when I want to. And I buy toys every now and then. I'm not talking boats and Harley's, but you get the point. I feel like I have nothing to complain about

Could I use more money, absolutely.

I started this lifestyle out in my 30's and wondered from day 1 why am I doing this!?? If only I would of started in my 20's things would be ooooo so different!:p

"Life of quiet desperation"
 

True, but keep in mind that there are millions of workers who know exactly where their cubicle is located, how many hours until the bumper-to-bumper commute home, and how many days until the weekend. They also may ask themselves "Why am I doing this?", especially if they gaze out the window and see a contrail. :(

Now that's a perspective I can agree with! But, to each his own, I guess.:o

I laugh at some of the responses in this thread when the original poster specifically stated, "HOW IS IT FOR A SINGLE PERSON?"

I think, no doubt, the job sucks for the family life, but that's something we all know. The question was to the single life, not married, and I still sense some bitterness from those who have established a family already.

Of course we know that, regardless of whether you're married or not, we should get paid better. Of course, that's not the argument. I'm earning **** right now but still manage to live a normal life without bitterness. I still have my fun. ;)

I can't agree with this more, however, being retired on the 767, I'm sure you really knew what it was like when the people in this industry were actually respected (by management and passengers alike). Everyone takes this industry for granted and it looks like the days of the $29 one way fare from Chicago to Vegas are over, thank god! Flying should never be cheaper than driving, as time is money. Things are about to change in a very big way by this fall. Hopefully the changes bring back some respect to this industry to those that truly deserve it.

Max flight time for the year is 1,000 hours. typically scheduled around 80 a month. That lets you work 15-20 overtime for most of the year before you time out. It still will require a base of around 42+ an hour. What regional are you at?.... or, where did you learn to do math?

I really hope he makes $56K like he says. that is what all of us on the regional level should be making on second year pay with good work rules and all. The jacked up thing is here he is making good money as people in his shoes deserve to be, but their company now is going to have to lay off hundreds! You really cant win right now!

I hope he is making it too... that being said, he shouldnt' have to do it by spending every waking moment planning 30/7 conflicts, swapping to create conflicts, and bidding to create conflicts. The job should, as you said, pay at that level to begin with.

3 years ago I was a RJ Capt. bringing home $65,000 working about 16 days a month. I lived in my base and it was great, I was around the top 25% of my bases seniority so I could hold any type of trip I wanted. I could be home every night, or party on the layovers with my awesome crews. I was very happy and content to stay there. I was very lucky because when I was hirred the Regionals had sustained 30% growth of over 4 years. We where getting 2 plans a month a very long time. However there where a lot of guys that got stuck in the right seat which paid below livable wages. Those guys had it really tough, I dont know they did it. I guess the answer to your question is it depends on your seniority.

no way...u would have to average 135 hours per month of pay at 34.45 an hour...and per diem doesn't count towards money made...its a compensation

To give an unsarcastic response to the original question, yes I imagine the gypsy lifestyle can be fun and a lot better than flipping burgers if you're 23 and single. The problem is you don't get to stay 23 and single ("I'm not getting married for a long time!" LOL yeah right.. translation: I'm going to get hitched to the first hot F/A that bats her eyelashes at me.) :rolleyes: The things that seem cool and fun now will be a drag later. If the best part of this job is flying around to see your college buddies on your days off it's going to get old really fast. I was halfway serious when I said become an F/A, if you don't care about money and are just looking to travel and live out of a suitcase for a while a mainline F/A has a lot better lifestyle than a regional F/O with the same benefits. Heck go work on a cruise ship for a few years and get laid every night. I can think of lots of jobs with great perks that would be way more fun for a single guy than the daily grind of airline flying.

Exactly.

You can if you try, but then you end up being that old guy in the club. (with apologies to Chris Rock)

First year pay does suck. After that, I don't think it's that bad. The worst part about the job is lack of time spent at home. Exwaterski nailed it on the head as far as the 23 and single part. Eventually, you're going to settle down. Having worked many many less pleasurable jobs, I've got to say the money is decent. Put yourself in the shoes of the minimum wage septic tank digger outer guy, or the guy who harvests agriculture in Yuma, AZ in 120 degree heat, and you realize airline flying isn't that bad. After time though, many forget where they came from. Do I think the pay should be better, absolutely. But so do doctors, lawyers, Dick Cheney, Bill Gates, and so on. Unfortunately, it's human nature to always want more, unless you're a bushman from the Calahari. Maybe I need to move there.

Having said all that, watching your career go down the toilet courtesy of an incompetent management team is pretty frustrating.

I'm single at least as far as the IRS is concerned so I figure I might as well chime in...

I have a long-term girlfriend I live with, both in our mid 20s, she is a high school teacher, we have no kids, own a house together, both own our cars and have no other debt except the house. I for one, couldn't be happier. We travel the world, go out where we want when we want, bum around town, never really worry about money. Between the two of us we are pulling in about $100K/year. Not bad for a couple of goofballs in our 20s. Having done the restaurant (all the way up to management) and the IT thing (networking) I can honestly say that I consistently enjoy this job more than the others. Yes, there is BS you put up with but you will find that in any job.

Now, somehow I lucked out and found a girl who is independent and self-confident enough to handle the airline lifestyle and actually enjoys being bowled over and thrown on the bed after not being together for 4 days. If you've got a girl who is the jealous or clingy type or who needs you around all day every day, then you might want to save yourself some grief and get out now (of this job or the relationship). Or if YOU are the clingy or jealous one, you may want to also consider getting out now.

And for those of you doubting SAAB, on my second year at XJT, if you want to talk GROSS pay MINUS per diem I made just over $53K. I'm sure I don't work the system as hard as SAAB but it's not hard to make money when you have good workrules. It's not just hourly rate x hours worked = yearly pay. For those of you interested, it says I worked 988.7 hours last year or about 82 hours/month.

Dude, you must be working your @$$ off! I'm going to make about $36K on third year pay at XJT. Just think, in a normal job you could make 56K and be home a hell of a lot more and you'd be working a hell of a lot less to make it.

Edited to say: Yes I know I could work harder, but life is too short, and I'm already gone from home too much. My whole goal is to work as little as possible to maximize my time off to enjoy what really matters in life.

Second year at SKYW I grossed 46K - sidenote; I commute which doesnt allow me to play the system - Dually noted to clear over 50K second year at any regional you have to live in domicile and WORK your tail off

You must not be doing it right;) You might want to check how you calculated that. Are you talking gross or net pay? I know now is not the best time but you're senior enough to know how to get yourself FBOd left and right. That was a big money maker/time off maker for me when we were still training new hires.

I am qualified to answer the question, yes it's pretty bad.
 

Exwaterski's response above was excellent.

I am single: No de facto or de jure wife or significant other to help pay for bills and fun. Why are you "married" guys even contributing to this thread?

I have over 5 years at a "major" regional :confused:.

I've been fortunate to work in the military and civilian world in both flying and non-flying jobs.

Now that I've qualified myself to respond, in my experience, the single person working for most regional airlines has a very undesirable lifestyle for the following reasons:

-Pay/promotion/job prospects are poor (significantly below average U.S. college grad pay with similar years experience) and likely to stay that way.
-Between ALPA and "legacy" airline management, regional airline pilot groups are used against each other as bargaining chips with no regard to ALPA's duty to represent. The Comair/ASA RJDC federal lawsuit and "ALPA settlement" indicate this will continue.
-Prospects are dim that pay/promotion will be significantly better than the U.S. college graduate average in the future. Cost of living is almost certainly guaranteed to continue to increase however.

Regional pilot groups/contracts are whipsawed with others and upgrade to better pay and schedules, and job security is impossible. Work rules at most regionals have suffered progressively over the past few years due to the same whipsawing. The "legacy/network/major/traditional" carriers do this with the tacit permission of ALPA to keep cost per seat mile feed as cheap as possible. This situation is not likely to change in the next 5-10 years.

Varsity team pilot groups have had opportunities to integrate with wholly owned regional pilot groups from the same union. The opportunity wasn't even discussed. When another varsity team is purchased, the integration of the pilot groups is taken for granted even when it turns into an abortion and ALPA is kicked off property.

Many will tell you that regional flying is "dues" paying. In fact, if you fly as a first officer for over 5 years by choosing the "wrong" regional carrier, you will never accumulate the magic turbine PIC at that carrier. The only dues you'll be paying are the ALPA dues that help your union brethren at the top keep their jobs at all costs. This is illustrated by the outcome of the Comair/ASA RJDC federal lawsuit against ALPA. Nothing changed. The stepping stone path to a better pilot job through regional airlines is more myth than reality. Especially now that non-regional pilot groups are shrinking like ball sacks at a polar bear swim.

Finally, as with any job, if you find a great company you'll be happier. Also, if you are not "single" but have the advantage of a strong partner, to share financial burden and risk, the lifestyle SEEMS better. Any situation is better with more disposable income and another wage earner in case of disaster. That being said, one of the fastest ways to "become" single is to start out married as a regional airline pilot. Ask single guys/girls at specific regionals if they are are loving it.

There's not really any reason to paint a rosy picture. If you know any grandparents who can remember the 1930s railroad days, regional pilots are analagous to the African Amercian employees who did a lot of hard work for little pay with no hope of advancement, while the engineers and executives were always paid better and held apart and above. Except today we regional pilots are actually doing the same job, to the same places, in the same airspace, just with fewer seats.

***:D

I left the regional world about 4 months ago and it was the best descision I ever made. I fly outta my hometown airport, on avg fly about 8 days a month, and make over twice as much as a first year FO at my previous regional. My job may not be for everyone but love it. As far as the single life im 22 and single, and having more fun than i ever have . I can see how the whole commuting thing can put a huge damper on a relationship as I was in one while I was commuting.
PS its not a corporate gig either

It's only 3.75 min if you picked the trip up on a day off and if you're a line holder you only get the 150% or the day restored, not both. At least that is what the contract says.

That being said I don't doubt you, if you're flexible and live in base it's not hard to maximize your pay. If you commute and want to be home it's hard to do what SAAB mentions, execpt for when we were hiring. I was getting paid for 80-90 hours a month and flying ZERO!

If I wanted to work I could have credited as much as 190 hours of pay some months.

I worked over my vacation, so that helped, and If I will post my Pay register on here with some stuff removed. I am not ssure why I would lie.............

On track
 

He did only say that he was "on track" to make 56K. Maybe the month that he worked over his vacation plus per diem and overtime projected out over a year equals 56K?. Add in the quarter that he found in the parking lot and the free hotel rooms and you could get there. :)

I had a job as a smokejumper pilot for the Forest Service and one month I only flew one hour. I was paid $5500 a month as an FO. I suppose I could claim an hourly wage of $5500 since I did nothing else that month.

SkyHigh

I'm also gonna chime in and say that I'm not sure how this could be possible. I too am on second year pay here, and I'm "on schedule" to make $15,000-$20,000 less than that. I work about 85 hours a month, and I rarely ever see pairings with scheduled deadheads and other "soft time". Everybody always speaks of wx cancellations and the corresponding extra pay, but in the entire time I've been here I've only ever had THREE cancellations, and even then I've never had a day off rolled. I suppose its great when it happens, but unofrtunately it almost never happens.

I think the fact that I can hold day trips is whats making me really max my pay. I have line #606 fo August in EWR, take a look at it, you will see where I am able to make a lot of extra cash. its 95hrs of flying with 15 hrs of DeadHead.........

Also if you bid a line with a lot of flying in the beginning of the month, but you flew a ton at the end of the month, you will have those days turned into RA days, then pick up flying after the RA days so they can't put anything on those RA days, so you get paid 3.75 or whatever it is for th RA days.......I had 3 RA days last month I was not used. :)

Yeah, it seems as though day trips are the only way to make extra money. Unfortunately, its much harder to do when you only do 3+4 day trips, as I do. Thats a good idea about the RA days however. I just so happen to be in that very situation for August. Perhaps I'll do that.