Yup, ATP mins for 121.

Exactly! No one should pay for any training beyond FAA professional certificates, including type ratings.

keep in mind that it takes them 52 weeks to get thru upt... with i think around 200 total hours out of that... INTENSIVE ground training

How do you propose to do that? Hiring minimums (above FAA experience requirements) are a reflection of supply and demand. If demand (for pilots) is low and supply is high, then minimums rise. Take the JetBlue and Southwest minimums for example. If supply is low and demand is high, the minimums drop. Take ASA's 600/100 or Mesa's sign-here-if-you're-breathing-and certified minimums, for example.

In a free market, low supply/high demand would also mean something else: that prices for labor (wages) would rise. Our union contracts preclude that from happening, at least until the contract is amended. The current climate of majors rejecting contracts in bankruptcy also has a chilling effect on rising wages, but as you said, that is a temporary problem.

My hope is that what will happen is that companies will realize that even at rock-bottom minimums they cannot fill enough seats to meet demand. There will always be a few who will PFT, but the vast majority of people follow the money. When people realize that they can't live on airline wages, they will go to law school or med school instead. When that happens, the airlines will have to raise the price they pay for labor, both in terms of actual dollars and QOL improvements, to attract pilots to their company.

Additionally, I believe that fractionals are going to exert an upward pressure on regional wages and QOL. After all, both industries are competing for a limited number of qualified pilots and fractionals have or are trending toward much better wages and contracts.

The first step in turning things around is not to bash PFT. It's to hold the line at current levels. Kudos to Independence, ASA, Mesaba, Pinnacle, and other companies that are resisting/have resisted calls for concessions and pay cuts. Other companies such as Chataco, Mesa, and Comair have some work to do as far as bringing their current contracts up to "industry average" and/or standing up to management.

We absolutely have to stop the slide to the bottom before we can think about improving our industry.

I would suggest an extensive lobby campaign to legislate that ALL airline pilots meet ATP requirements.

Hopefully the micro-jet air-taxi folks will soon start scooping up all of the 1000 hour pilots.

CHQ and Mesa simply outgrew their turbo-prop contracts and are trying catch up. COMAIR did pretty well until recently, but it's tough to hold out for much in Ch.11.

Yeah, the microjets will definitely help use up some of the pilot supply. Unfortunately, they may also take away some of the demand for airline seats. We'll have to see how that works out.

From what I hear, the Comair concession vote was pretty close. I'm not sure that it made a difference. I think that their future has already been decided one way or another.

As far as Mesa goes, I think that your contract is amendable in 2007 if I remember correctly. The eyes of the whole industry are already on you. I know that you guys have been fighting back against JO the last year or so. I hope that you will stick to your guns and fight for a contract that will help us all.