Hey I heard that once all the jets are on property, there is some sort of snap back in the contract that will return our pay to pre-bankruptcy pay skills. Is this true and what are they?

We are scheduled to get some of the snap back this December 1. YOu can view the pay rates and the formula for the snap backs in LOA 23 of the contract. LOA 23 was the Ch11 concessionary deal.

The 120 limit will also be increased by three with each additional aircraft received by delta/NW.

Yeah im not sure how all the percentages work so i was hoping someone would do it for me.

Open LOA 23. Then go to the very end of the .pdf file and page backwards until you find the correct DOS rates. This December will be DOS+2.

Then find the rate category for your time with company and equipment (i.e. 5-6 year and 40 to 50 seat jet).

The rate shown is based on 49 SAABs + 12 (whatever types). Find your specific rate then add 1.5% to that rate and thats what you will be getting paid as of December 1st.

There we go.....thanks

That may be their interpratation. However, DALPA's is they do count towards the 120. They are only exempted from the weight restriction. I guess we can plan on seeing a grievance filed if they try and go down that road.

The AE Saabs are being sold off to random operators around the world.

Put this 12 hour Saab flight in your pipe and smoke it!

FlightAware > Live Flight Tracker > N382AE > 09-Aug-2008 > KNYL-PLCH

Yes, you can thank ALPA for that snapback.

Nevermind. Too much work, not enough sleep....

Anyone know about this?

its a yearly pay "increase" by 2-3.5% depending on the year and depending on how many aircraft we get.

Next time I will use sarcasm tags so my true intent is a little more clear.

We are all snapped back for now until DOS +5 years.

I have no idea what "snapped back" means...

Actually, we haven't received any snapbacks yet. We've only had 1 full year pass since the concessionary LOA was signed. The fleet has been growing steadily over the last 1.5 years and if I"m not mistaken THIS Dec 1st, we will see part of the snapbacks. The snapbacks are linked to our fleet size and as it gets larger beyond 49 saabs, each airplane triggers a percentage of snapback. I'm pretty sure we're scheduled to get back to the original wages by 2010. I might have some of that timeline wrong, but we're definitely not fully snapbacked as of today.

Snapback = getting back to our original contract pay rates. We took temporary concessions and as the fleet grows, we get the money back over time.

We did get a raise last December and will continue to get those. However, the rate at which those raises will be coming is locked in at 3.5% for this year and 3% next year. It doesn't really matter how many aircraft we have until we get to DOS+5 and then it goes from 2 to 3% if we have more than 120 aircraft.

The DOS +1 raise was not a snap back... it was a negotiated increase as the contract matures. That is the same for all Dec 1st raises. The snap backs come on top of those negotiated raises, of which I believe a portion of which are included in the DOS +2 charts, which came in the latest update for the contract.

Quick question...
I've seen the term "DOS" used a lot in some contracts I've looked through. What does it stand for? Date of ... ?

DOS = date of signing.

Thank you, makes sense now.

So we will get two raises (or 1 bigger raise) this December then?? That will be nice and I will be glad that I was wrong!!

Just 1 raise on Dec 1, not multiple. From what I understand the snap back additions were added to the original DOs +2 numbers and what you see in the LOA include the snap back provisions. I could be wrong and if I am then you'd take the DOS +2 numbers and add the snap back provision for the current fleet size... something like that. Either way we will always see a raise on Dec. 1 and on our anniversary dates.

I'm glad this came up. I've been trying to figure this out for a while now.

OK, but there aren't any DOS+2 numbers in the Restructuring Agreement, other than in the Wage Recovery Grid (pg. A.121). Since DOS+1 is defined as being December 1st, 2007, we're definitely into DOS+2 on 12/1/08.

I'm lost. By DOS+2, do you mean the numbers for DOS+2 in Section 3 of the contract (from 2004)? If that's the case: I'll be in my 14th month at Mesaba on December 1st (FO), so I'm looking at $28.79 in the 2004 DOS+2 numbers, plus 3.5% from the snapback for fleet size? Huh? That doesn't make sense since the whole purpose of the snapback is to get back to where we were before, which should be the 2004 numbers. I guess I'm asking where your getting the DOS+2 numbers, if we had to add the 3.5% ourselves (since there aren't any in the LOA#23). :confused:

Aww...whatever. At a FO pay rate, the difference is hardly enough to buy dinner for two once a month. I guess I'll find out what riches lie in store for me when I get my first paystub in 2009. :rolleyes:

The #'s in Appx. A include the wage increases. Part of those increases are across the board--part are "snap backs". The Grid on A.125 of the contract tells you what the total wage recovery will be based on A/C #'s (the combination of across the board and snap back). The table on A.121 tells you what your pay rate will be on Dec. 1, 2008 based on longevity--we have enough A/C to max out the wage recovery now--yet alone on Dec. 1, 2008. So, if want to know what you pay rate will be at on Dec. 1, 2008, use the table on page located in LOA 23 (A.121). For Dec. 1, 2009 use the table on A.122. Gbntpilot: your rate will be 29.02/hr on Dec 1, 2008. How did I get there........go to years of service (YOS 1-2) table on A.121 then over to the FO rate. If you don't have LOA 23 and the appedix then call your MEC or Local Rep and request a copy. If you have other contract questions Contact a REP! They don't bite, and everyone of them is there for YOU!

Hope this helps.

So, with everyone else stopping hiring and furloughing, Mesaba seems to be doing well, is that likely to continue or are they hiring just to fill in a few slots before they stop or possibly go in reverse like the rest of the companies out there?

As far as right now, according to APC the upgrade time in the Saab is less than a year, what is it in the jet? And any guesses on what those upgrades will be like down the road? Are they getting shorter or longer?

If you aren't already hear you won't be seeing jet captain for a LONG time. (although the schedules suck on it so bad I am hearing more and more guys saying they want to either go back to the Saab or don't plan on leaving the Saab now) As for the Saab, at this point short of a lot more airplanes coming or a lot of captains leaving I'd guess at least 2-3 years....(again that's based on being hired today)

So have all upgrade classes stopped?

No, upgrade classes are up and running again but he's just saying that a new hire would not see an upgrade for a while. There are pleanty of current Mesabanites to upgrade.

Shouldn't it be Mesabains?

Mesabagander's? (Like Michigander's):confused:

Well, obviously there are plenty of people waiting, just wondering how much things have slowed down there. Are there more aircraft being delivered to you guys?

I would say just the opposite is happening.......things are speeding up. We don't know why yet but there is a lot of hiring going on and according to several sources the hiring will not be tapering off anytime soon. We are seeing vacancies like we did last time this year when we had a huge surge.

Babur... thanks for clearing that up.