Mesaba Future
 

So it seems like lately I keep hearing everyone say we are getting the additional 36 900's...I even heard this 2 days before my checkride from an LCA (March 11). But then I hear people say well we can't get the additional 36 because of a scope clause. But then I hear people say well we can't get them till we merge with Delta...blah blah blah. What's the story...

Is the 36 RJ's and all or nothing deal too...

So let's go out on a limb here and say we do get the additional 36 to put in place the phase out of the DC-9 and Delta's MD's, about two weeks ago it was reported that Delta was interested in being the US launch customer for the Bombardier C-Series. What's gunna happen to the 900 if all those C-Series come on line in 2012.

I've also heard talk of us dumping our 200's and doing the transition for 200 crews to the 900. Is there any truth to this...

The bottom line is this... the people who know haven't shared the future with us. All other talk is complete speculation. I've heard all the same rumors you're talking about, but they're just that... rumors.

Go with what we know... 36 900s, 17 200s and 49 Saabs. Until then, everything else is speculation. Try not to get so hung up on rumors and stick with FACTS. Certainly don't plan your career based on rumors and loose speculation by some wanna be know it alls.

Just to kill some of the rumors with facts:

- At the moment Airlinks cannot operate more than 90, 76 seat a/c. That leaves only 18 more to operate. After the merger this could likely change. We could be capped at current levels, it may increase... who knows. NW/DL are in the drivers seat for this one.

- the 900s and 175s are not being operated to completely get rid of the DC9s. NWA is keeping a substantial amount around. They all seat between 100-125 seats. Even after the merger they'll be around and do you know how many MDs DL has? HUNDREDS! Think about it... do you really think the DL is going to replace their 100-140 seat a/c with 76 seat RJs? Further, the Cseries is going to be built to seat 110-130 seats, perfect for DC9 replacement. The Cseries will be used in a completely different market than the 175s/900s.

- LCAs are line pilots. Line pilots are usually the last to know anything of great importance. Other instructors might think they're in the know, but in the end, they're just speculating as well. If any earth shattering information is shared, it will come with a confidentiality agreement. Once again, those who REALLY know aren't talking, because they can't.

Its true. We are getting more 900's! The total will be around 100 CRJ-900's.
Expect an announcement very soon!

Man I luv da nine. Its pretty baller. My favorite part is making the announcements! Chicks dig it.

What basis are you making that decision on

I'm interested to see where you get your facts...would like to read about it...

looks like they are interviewing also. One of my friends going up there on the 26th

Threegreen - yea - we're interviewing, as we've always been.

Dj - My facts?

We all know what our fleet make up is going to be at the moment. We've known for over a year and you learned about it when you interviewed.

The NWA scope information is directly from their contract. The fleet sizes and a/c capacities are easily found online. Future fleet plans can be found through NWA press releases and from NWA employees.

There is tons of information out there, you just have to find it. I prefer to understand the state of affairs through fact and not rumors and wild speculation.

....huh?? They're interviewing yet they had canceled all of those classes back then?

Classes weren't canceled. They were filled with current Mesaba pilots and newhires were put into a pool. Due to the slowdown of attritian, NWA stopping their hiring (flowthru stops) and everyone else basically shutting down their hiring, we found ourselves over staffed on the saab. To solve that problem the company realigned the saab staffing, therefore filling the last several 900 classes with current saab Fos who wanted to switch. Once that comes to a halt, the poolies will get their classes.

Fact vs. Fiction. Isn't it amazing?

yep, and i think you might know him. he deserves it though.

He deserves the job? Wow why is that? He better earn it, jobs aren't just handed out to those who think they deserve them.

bored,

relax!!! he deserves an interview. i never said a job (that will be up to the HR ppl to decide).

Seriously, take a chill pill

I'm not worked up... just too many people that view the job as a sense of entitlement and wanted see what you meant. Good luck to your buddy, I hear HR and the pilots that hire have their pick of the litter, since the hiring has slowed down they can be even more selective. I guess only 4-5 people are getting interviews each month, good for him for getting the call!

Seriously...where do you get one....?

Walgreens.....aisle 3....23.99

Whats your problem with the -900's? Or is this a joke and I might have missed the sarcasm? It is early.

This is what I heard when I was in recurrent training in June and since then has heard again from several very senior CAs. Mesaba will get the additional 18 CRJ900s after the initial 36 have been delivered. MSP would not be getting the additional CRJ900 simulator in 2009 in addition to the CRJ sims there already if Mesaba is only getting 36. Another reason is the CRJ900 is about 15% more fuel efficient than E175. Do not expect to see anymore E175s going to regionals like Skywest, Compass or Mesaba for DAL. This is because NWA and DAL is looking for a true 100 to 120 seat fuel efficient replacement for DC9s, MD80s and A320s. People have talked about Bombardier C-series but they are not available yet and if they are ordered, it looks like they will be mainline jets to be flown by mainline pilots which is a good thing in the long run.

Also the Director of Ops has not directly said but hinted we might be getting the CRJ1000 because NWA has options for ANY Bombardier jet for any additional jets. Don't make too much out of this, take it for what it is, educated speculations. And don't try to make statements like you have more confirmed facts because you do not. None of us do unless you are in top management at NWA or DAL.

FYI, DAL CEO Anderson was on my flight from ATL to MSP last month.

So now we're getting another 900 sim? That's news to me. Haven't heard that one lightningspeed. Just for arguments sake... why do you think a senior 900 Capt. would know more than the average line pilot? Information does not trickle down in seniority order. The delivery of further 900s is COMPLETE speculation, it is not confirmed and has not been indicated by NWA that it will happen. Furthermore, where are all these stats people keep spewing about how much more efficient the 900 is vs. the 175? I've heard the same stuff from an APD, but I'm just curious where the numbers are? Maybe SL has them? You have mentioned this before in many threads but there still isn't proof in writing that the 900 is so much better than the 175.

NWA has always been looking for a true 100 seat DC9 replacement a/c... the reason they've kept them so long is that there isn't a viable replacement. The DC9s have several more years left in them and can certainly fly until the Cseries comes on line. As for the CRJ1000... riiiiiiiiight.

Once again, the bottom line is that we're all wondering about the future. I've been around XJ long enough to know what to believe and when to believe it. For now, I'll stick to the known quantity, since there isn't anything I can do about it anyhow. Speculating is fun, but you gotta remember it's just that... speculation. Also, at least do you your homework about the speculation before spouting it on a forum (not necessarily you lightning, just in general.)

I stated clearly that whatever I said is an educated speculation at best. And yes I do my homework before making any statements. You apparently do also, as you claim. So you are not the only doing your homework. I do not want to get into silly debate with another Mesaba Pilot. I have too much respect for Mesaba pilots to do that. In fact I do not have any desire to do so even with other regional pilots.

You are entitled to believe what you want, just don't make it sound like your opinion is the only one feasible, because it is not. If you read my entire post you would have realized that I also stated none of us have any real info unless you are one of the top executives at NWA or DAL.

CRJ100 is a pure speculation, and I clearly indicated as such. You need to read more carefuly and not read so much into it. People speculate on this forum because it is fun. If you don't like it, don't read them.

As far as fuel efficiency and other efficiency factors, do your homework. Talk to CP, base managers, maintenance techs, research online. I find it hard to believe that you can't seem to comprehend that. Just looking at the dimensions, location of the engines, drag factors would indicate that CRJ9 is cleaner and more streamlined.

Look - I'm not arguing with you. I'm just stating fact. Senior pilots don't know anymore than the junior ones. The facts are out there for everyone... as far as we know we will operate 36 900s, 17 200s and 49 saabs. EVERYTHING else is speculation. Too many FOs I fly with and in reading this board and that other new Mesaba webboard is that people are so misinformed it's comical and disapointing at the same time. I'm not proclaiming my opinion on here at all... I proclaim the facts, because those are the only thing that matter.

Regarding the 175 vs. 900 debate. Stats from the factory etc... are generic. Talking to mechanics is one piece of the puzzle. The meat and potatoes for the argument are going to be the numbers NWA has in their files. Those numbers matter more than any generic operating stats because they're valid for their operation. Unfortunately you or I don't have access to those numbers, so I refrain from commenting on the 76 seat battle for lack of proper info. At face value I would guess the 900 is indeed more efficient. But I wouldn't proclaim that from the highest tower because I've heard from others that the 900 beats the 175 hands down.

There is no point in arguing, after all we're both on the same team... Mesaba. I just fly with so many FOs that are so misguided by the rumor mill it's horrible. Too many people get caught up in the flury of rumors and speculation that they start believing it. I flew with an FO convinced he was getting furloughed so he was going to look for another job. Incredible. Respect the Mesaba pilots.... that's awesome. Just think about where the info is coming from and do some homework before believing it! Again lightningspeed - that is a generic comment, don't take it personally.

I guess we should be happy with the one’s we have. :rolleyes:

BTW, we have more CR9’s (they are NG's) inked and scheduled to come on-line for Daddy D once they are delivered.

Have you seen the new DAL scope that will be inked in if the JCBA is signed in? Your answers on any further growth are there, basically none. FWIW There is a limit on aircraft numbers and takeoff weights, etc. Check it out.

Lightningspeed is pretty much right. Also The CRJ1000 will be over the max takeoff weight thus wouldnt be allowed to be flown by a regional for DAL.

True, NWA's current numbers mean nothing. I personally hope that the new DAL/NWA merger numbers put the kibosh on all this crap. The CR1000 cannot be allowed to fly for any US regional and the number of CR9 like a/c needs to remain restricted. I'm more than certain it will, at least with DAL.

KEEP MAINLINE JOBS AT MAINLINE!!!!! Protect our future!

Right but the CRJ 1000 is a 100 seat plane and in order to put that at a regional under DAL's current scope they would have to scale it down to 76 seats. That would make that plane pointless for the most part. Especially when DAL has said on a number of occasions that a 100 seat replacement is coming and its coming to mainline. I think we agree thats good news for our industry.;)

I think CRJ9 is already stretched enough as it is. CRJ1000 is going overboard in my opinion even if regionals are allowed to fly them. Makes no sense. I hope DAL is not allowed to do away with the current scope clause, otherwise my chances of moving up to DAL or NWA becomes slim to none unless I go fly for foreign carriers overseas. Majors like DAL and NWA need a fuel efficient 100 to 120 seat replacement jets for DC9s, MD80s, and A319/320s.

I saw that someone posted a comment on how our 900's are 30% more fuel efficient than the 175...this is true.

Restifo came into our training class and proved it, not to mention we had a couple ground instructors that used to fly 175's and they said the 900 blows it out of the water...

The fact is the 900 and 175 have the same engines...

NWA got the 900 cause it is faster and more efficient

NWA got the 175 cause it has a higher payload and is more comfortable...mainly why we don't fly to Mexico or Florida

I agree with most of what you are saying except CRJ900 and E175s do not have same engines. CRJ900 NWA ordered for us is an enhanced NextGen version that has 19,450 lbs thrust per side where as E175 only has about 14,500 lbs thrust per side and E175 is heavier and has more drag because it is wider and has engines mounted under the wings. CRJ900 can outclimb and is definitely faster, but is only about 15% more fuwel efficient, I believe. 30% seems little too high.

Not sure about E175s having a higher payload. CRJ900 I think the payload for both is very close. CRJ900 is just as comfortable as E175s. E175s in the cabin is only about 4 inches wider. I have sat in both as a passenger recently and I couldn't tell the difference. Word has it from the training department that we will be flying to Florida as well.

The 900 doesnt put out 19500 a side, unless I have been flying the dumbed down version. It is in the 1370 range with an uptrim to 14500. I cant comment on the pax seating as I have never been in the 175. On a side not however I cant recall the last time that NWA ever cared about passenger comfort. The only reason they have the 200 is so they can p!ss off 50 people at a time. I think the 900 may be faster but we dont fly it anywhere near its top speed. Florida is Comair territory and I suspect it will probably stay that way. You may see some but it would be coming from MEM.

When I was in training they said we would be taking the 900 to Aspen and Nassau...rriiiiiiiiiiiight

All of you who keep referencing senior check airman and training department people crack me up.

That goes for any airline not just Mesaba.

From what I am hearing from a lot of you on here is that you are hoping that Mesaba gets more planes and even get the CRJ1000, now would you rather have Mesaba get these planes or have them go to mainline?? I don't know what your intentions are but I sure don't want to stay at Mesaba for the rest of my life and agree with JetJock and Superpilot in the fact that we want mainline (NWA/DAL) to grow and not the regionals, now of course mainline views us as cheap labor and would love us to grow because we could fly the same planes but for twice as less, theres too many people out there that are like "ohhh I get to FLY A JET, it gives me a massive arousal" and don't even consider where they want to be 10 years down the road and that is what JetJock and SuperPilot is trying to say is that we want mainline to grow, we want more jobs there, keep the flowthrough going and make more money, theres too many people settling for flying for night time assistant manager at McDonald's wages just cuz they get to fly a big FAST JET and its way better than the Piper Warrior I was flying last year, so please don't fall into that trap, now it would be nice that Mesaba gets some more planes, but we also want to see the NWA/DAL get more and grow more because that is where many of our future jobs will be, as JETJOCK said "KEEP MAINLINE JOBS, Protect our futures!!!!"

DING DING DING, we have a Winner!!

100% dead on

Granted I've only been living the dream here for a year but the thing that gets me, is why are we getting hostile amongst ourselves. It'd be great to see new or more aircraft and it would be great to see more movement in seniority. My beef is with guys like me that have a year or less of seniority and are so damn gloomy, I find myself reminding more people than not at the end of the day, we all still have jobs. Regardless of scope, dal merger etc etc it is what it is and I think now might be a time to not necessarily be happy, nor sad, but how about content and out there to support guys flying that are a lot less fortunate than we are.

Muppets - you're right on. It's incredible how disgruntled, negative and as you said, gloomy many of the FOs I fly with are! You guys think this is bad? Just ask anyone at XJ who was around between 2001-2007 THEY will tell you what bad is. Anyone hired at XJ in 2007-2008 doesn't realize how good they've got it.

Growth... it's a double edged sword. We all want to advance our careers, which will come with growth. It comes at a price, like less jobs at mainline. Fortunately for Mesaba all the new jobs created in this last hiring boom are in reality, backfill from the constant shrinkage XJ experienced between 2001 and 2006. I don't view our latest "growth" as a boon for us and negative for mainline. After all, we're just getting back to the size we once were. However if MAINLINE relaxes scope further and we end up growing at their expense, we teeter on the edge of that sword. In the end, we as pilots at the regional level can't do anything about what mainline does to their contract. It's out of our hands... we just fly what we're given.

Hasn't anyone else figured out that for every aircraft we add we need 10 pilots to staff so we will need Five more Captains. Yet if "Delwest" adds an aircraft and 9 of our Captains flow and we will need Nine new Captains!!! 5 vs 9 do the math.

For the FO's who are supposedly complaining, who cares, you'll find these folks at any job. Let the supposed rough times weed out these guys. Some will jump ship, quit etc. We've seen it before, we'll see it again.

A lot of FO's have seen rough times before as well. Some are from Big Sky and Skyway. Do we have any other airline refugees here at Mesaba? I hope these arent the ones that are complaining.

I thought it was Northwelta...or maybe Delthwest. I can never get it right.

I must have missed the memo where it said that we as regional pilots get to choose what airplanes come to our company and what routes we get to fly them on.

Do you guys know if Mesaba will have flow to Delta post-merger... I have heard Compass will.

yes we will